A tough project to do well....(saving a Cal.8541)

Were the words of our esteemed Moderator in response to my question posted of the forum 18 months ago, as to how I could get a caliber 8541 movement cased.

Ever since reading the article entitled - IWC's Great Automatic Movements The Calibre 85 Family (www.iwcforum.com/Articles/Calibre85Family/Text.html) I just simply had to have an 8541 on my wrist. While searching the web for a watch, I came across a bare movement in good shape and having acquired it, was ecstatic. Until I heard that Schaffhausen would only re-case if I sent an original serialized case back along with the movement.

So I reached out to the forum for help, and Michael responded starting with those words…and warned of the challenges and risks of taking on this project (see his response still on the board – search for message heading “8541 Movement - Service & re-casing”) but referred me to RGM in Penna USA, who could possibly do it.

But I was determined to push through, and give this fine movement a new home. By then I had just acquired my first Ingenieur, the Ref. IW322801, and really liked the design of the dial with the centre of the dial patterned. That’s also, when I discovered that RGM still does hand guilloche turning and custom dials....so the concept kind of grew from there. We finally put together a design, which would do justice to the movement, have some IWC 'flavor' in the dial design, yet be unique and not turn out to be a "Frankenwatch" – My way of paying homage to Albert Pellaton and a tribute to this great IWC movement.

The watch was finally finished last week - and I post a picture of it here. I believe I achieved what I set out to do, and the only doubt is around the crown. There are those out there (already polled) who believe that this watch needs a different crown. Your vote counts - may I ask you to cast it.

Does it need a genuine classic IWC Crown wearing a PROBUS SCAFUSIA logo? Yes or No – please vote.

A tribute to the 8541

A very special story, well done!

I think the watch really looks nice, very fitting to the movement. The crown is OK, it lends the watch a bit of a vintage look, quite special. Can you post a bit larger picture?

Kind regards,
Paul, wearing rose gold Saint Exupéry Chrono, fitting to our first golden Olympic medal

A tough project to do well....(saving a Cal.8541)

Higher resolution photo

img692.imageshack.us/img692/3396/hires8541.png

You Certainly Did It !!!...........

...I think your project turned out Great. You should be very pleased and proud of the finished, one of a kind watch. Crown looks good to me.

Congratulations!

Best,

• Joe

My 2nd post is a link to high resolution photo....

My vote is a definite

no.

First, the watch came out looking great. It should be a piece you will enjoy for many years.

If you are not familiar with RGM watches, the onion crown has long been a signature feature for them. While the watch contains an IWC motor, the outer portions of the watch (case, dial, etc) are RGM and the watch bears its name. Thus, I think it fitting to leave the signature RGM crown on it.

Agreed. nt

Very nice watch, Mark!

Your perseverance paid off with a piece that is made just for you! I would keep the crown that was furnished.

Best regards,
Jim

I love your project, but about that crown...

The "onion" crown is mostly used in some pocket watches, a lot of cheap marriages, and RGM watches (a small subset of the world). To my thinking it smacks of unauthenticity and also it detracts from the overall design of the watch --it was never used in a wristwatch by IWC and looks like a hybrid. As such, I find it distracting at best and at worst it mimics a cheap marriage --which your watch is not.

Your watch is beautiful, and a flat crown would be aesthetically better. It needn't be a Probus crown or even if fish crown --just something more like iWC used on its watches in the '60s and 70s.

Sorry to be so outspoken.
Michael

Onion crown never been used by IWC?

Maybe the one onion is not the other onion, but I remember the crowns of the Portuguese Jones and the Novecento, that were onion shaped. It really made the watches look special.

Kind regards,
Paul, wearing rose gold Saint Exupéry Chrono

well yes, but...

I was referring to the large, bulbous crown here. It may be a difference in terminology, but I guess there were some rounded crowns. I think the Jones tried to emulate a pocket watch crown, but not the real bulbous "onion" one even though some people call it that. Still, I understand your point that there may be a few precedents by your standards.

Regardless, I think the onion crown looks contrived here and fits on a classic wristwatch like this one similar to a fish on a bicycle. Imagine a Ref. 866 Ingenieur or original Aquatimer with an onion crown --it would be laughable.

Hmm, I double checked my standards

When I look at the picture above and the picture of the Portuguese Jones in the catalog of a few years ago, both crowns look about the same size, the one is not more bulbous than the other. The same I did with the Novecento, with about the same result: the Novecento crown may be a bit smaller. Nothing beats seeing the watches while holding them in your hands, but that is my conclusion from the material I have.

As the watch shown is not a IWC, but a hommage to a beautiful movement, the shape of the crown is really immaterial and in the end a matter of taste. The crown shown lends something special to the watch which makes you look again.

Kind regards,
Paul, wearing steel VC Pilot's watch

I'm still going to disagree...

I understand your point and your feeling that the crown is not typical of an IWC watch. But to me, the watch is an RGM and the crown is virtually standard.

The movement is IWC for sure, but all of the outer parts and design are RGM, the guilloche dial is another RGM signature (hand guilloched on an antique rose engine in Lancaster), and the name on the dial is RGM. The watch takes design cues from a model series RGM originally conceived and introduced to house old Hamilton pocket watch movements (originally also made in Lancaster). Putting an IWC movement in it really only makes it better yet!

Given the above, I continue tothink the onion crown is correct. Different strokes!

I understand your point, but....

..to me the crown looks bad on RGM watches too, which is why it seldom is used anywhere else. As I said, imagine that crown on a vintage Ingenieur or Aquatimer --it wouldn't be just a question only of authenticity, but aesthetics. But I admit that aesthetics are subjective.

we disagree (nt)

I like your watch>

I think it well represents your love for this glorious caliber and since I consider it, not exactly an IWC but something "new" I wouldn't change the crown.

A little suggestion perhaps not considered. Since is the movement you appreciate the most in your watch, you could put a see through case back and improve the finitures of the movement in order to make it awsome.

I have great admiration for an indipendent italian watchmaker* who modifies simple calibers and turn them into something exceptional, you could try to ask to IWC to do the job.

Regards,

roberto

*Clearly just an example, it takes a lot of time to order a RF watch and prayers to be accepted.

Romeo Ferraris

I'd have to agree with MF....

....it suggests a poor automatic movement that needs a crown of that size/type. A blank domed crown of the correct proportion would add a touch of class and be more explanatory in explaining the parts coming together.

Here is a restoration piece done by IWC

Only sorry I did not take befor and after photos
This watch was derelict and recovered from a watchmakers spare parts box

If only I had their expertise

Ivan
iwcforme

I like your watch> Yes - I did !

Indeed. Sorry I forgot to mention this aspect of the "project". I don't consider myself a purist (although the more time I spend on this forum, the more I am beginning to lean that way), and from the start of the project I definitely wanted to "show" the 8541.

So when the watchmaker told me that the date wheel needed to be removed to mount a replacement dial (neccesary
- as I wanted a watch of suitable size to wear), and I had to accept that the movement would not remain in its original state, I did opt for some cosmetics. but wanted to keep it minimal.

So polishing up of the plates, some bluing of a few of the main bridge screws etc. For those of you who know the 8541 movement, you know that it has a pretty massive solid rotor, which hides almost half the movement. So we borrowed here from some of IWC's concept of a skeleton rotor, allowing for more of the movement, but in particular the pellaton winding mechanism to be seen.

This was the only "change" I permitted and indeed all this is visible behind a saphire glass case back.

Here is a ANOTHER restoration piece done by IWC

I too have had the true experts in Schaffhausen restore/refurbish timepieces. Their work and craftmanship speaks for itself.

Here, some shots of the Cal. 95 dating from 1929 (IWC archives) I had IWC rework.

I would have loved for Schaffhausen to have re-cased my 8541, but without a serialised case back this was not possible, and we as collectors must both accept and appreciate this decision by IWC, not to do so.

Before being re-worked by IWC

After with Geneve Striping

After - Dial side

Here is a ANOTHER restoration piece done by IWC

Hopefully with links that work

Before

After - Geneve striping post IWC rework

After - Dial Side

A real beauty, even being square... (nt)