My first foray into IWC collecting - today -
[
](s740.photobucket.com/user/boswellpho/media/P1020644_zps39cefdec.jpg.html)
[
](s740.photobucket.com/user/boswellpho/media/P1020655_zpsf76d3bea.jpg.html)
[
](s740.photobucket.com/user/boswellpho/media/P1020658_zpsee877392.jpg.html)
1931 case with 1941 movement - 14ct gold, Calibre 83, 2 x service date marks '62 and '76 - case maker? ML.
Hi.
Welcome to forum.
The movement and dial may have been imported into the UK without a case, and the case manufactured locally.
IWC case number 92929 would be in a PW from 1983.
Hi,
I checked with this web site lookup and this is the result -
[
](s740.photobucket.com/user/boswellpho/media/Ashampoo_Snap_20141207_22h56m24s_001__zps099bf71d.jpg.html)
This seems to be taken from established tables, but it is a minefield.
I have noted the same or very similar case designs in the Blue Catalog of 1941/42. Some models also share the thin straight lugs, though unknown if the case have straight sides or not
The Date Your IWC app has some errors but is generally very reliable.
The number I see on the inside of the case back is 92929 not 929292, and I also do not see the IWC logo.
I am not an expert on hallmarks but those in the case back appear to be British, especially ML which appears to be a maker's mark. The other hallmark appears to be an animal's head (a wolf?) with the number 4 on the right inside an irregular hexagon.
Yes your right! Why didn't I see that?
My eyesight these days unfortunately is not good even when looking at the obvious and tends to jump and the number is as you say a digit less at 92929 so would not tally with the entry I put into the search. My mistake.
I have just noted the same mark - Leopards head? plus 4 on the outer facing exterior upper lug of the watch - so a mystery for now. I'll trawl around to see what I can glean from the hallmark archives.
Many thanks.
Several countries imported movements from IWC, and other brands, to be cased locally, because of the high tax on finished gold watches. The UK was one of them.
IWC will not issue a Certificate of Authenticity for your watch, because there is no record of that sale in the archives.
Strictly speaking, I would not consider your watch a "marriage", although others may have a different opinion.
IMO a "marriage" happens only when a good pocket watch is destroyed to make a wristwatch. Not all "marriages" are bad, though. There are levels of badness. A very bad "marriage" happens when the gold case of a PW is sold to be melted, and the movement to make a wristwatch, however, when a collector saves a lost movement to make a wrist watch, it is the lesser of two evils. :-)
It seems the more you discover the more fascinating it becomes.
I wonder - was this case a blank new case, made for the IWC into which this movement was fitted, or a blank new case into which it happened to fit. And regarding the service marks - do they refer to this movement or a previous occupant now long gone?
It seems to me over the years with my vintage collection (over 60 watches now) I still have around 15 or so where there is some mystery, sometimes ambiguity in origin or Maker or indeed their subsequent changes (or not) through their lives till today.
Sometimes of course this can be rewarding - I had one such model unknown which transpired to be a one off by a famous maker (a bespoke model) for an equally famous client. But that's a rarity of course, but fun nevertheless!
This IWC however I rather like, whatever it's history throws up and it looks good too and as a first IWC for me I'm quite pleased.
There could be more . . . .
The wolf head mark is not a British mark. Britain has various assay offices who use different shapes of shields to identify the assay office. The assay marks include a mark to signify whether plat gold or silver and the carat value and a letter in a particular type face which signifies the year of assay plus a makers mark. Mixed precious metals are treated with suspicion so gold watches with steel backs would not be allowed to be marked as gold. Where silver is gilded the hallmark is done on a silver item that is there after gilded.
Hi Greg.
You are right, the case is not British made, and it is also not Portuguese. It may be Austrian, according to another forum member who is knowledgeable of these issues.
I speculated the image on the mark could be the head a wolf, but it could also be the head of a bear, or of a mythical animal.
The number 4 on the right of the head means the case is made of 14ct gold.
I believe it is Hungarian.click here
Hi,
You just beat me to it with this comment as I found the Numismatics Hungary site too last night - This is exactly the mark on my watch, with one inside the case and on the lug exterior - which we now know denotes the 14k import Hungarian Hallmark (in use from 1937 to 1966).
The Case Maker I doubt will probably remain unknown which is a pity as they have a case number and many didn't.
I assume that as this was a 1941/2 movement it was supplied as such? then cased probably soon after? but ho knows?
The cal 83 movement #1045071 dates from 1942 and may or may not have been sold to Hungary with an IWC case, or only the movement/dial, around that date.
In 1942 WWII was raging in that part of the world and, importing watches from Switzerland and manufacturing gold cases, may not have been a priority for the Hungarian people.
There may be an intriguing story behind that watch, which may be worthwhile investigating, starting by indenfying who is ML?
