CF Da Vinci vs the Ceramic Da Vinci

I like the new ceramic Da Vinci, really. But –and I admit I’m biased—I like the Collectors’ Forum Da Vinci much more, and for many reasons. In no order of preference, my reasons include:

1. The CFDV is more special. It is a small limited edition, and represents this forum –a fact that is important to me, even if lost on others.

2. The CFDV is far more versatile. It is both a sporty dress watch and a dressy sports watch. To me the ceramic model is, at best, only a sporty watch. To me, it goes as well with a suit as well as a Casio.

3. There is a huge difference in price. While we can’t discuss specific prices here, I will say that in rough numbers the ceramic model is about 2000 USD more –strap version vs. strap version. And that’s before the fact that a bracelet is included on the CFDV –a 2300 USD free extra. Thee total price differential is over 4000 USD, and to me the incremental difference isn’t worth it. I find that huge, and I am amazed how collectors sometimes evaluate watches without considering relative value or absolute cost.

4. I like the dial on the ceramic version. It’s interesting, but also –to be perfectly candid—I find it derivative. It’s what Richard Mille and Perrelet and a lot of other companies and all sorts of price points have done over the past few years. The CFDV dial is not as “exciting” or cutting-edge, but it’s more IWC. It embodies heritage, and that to me has value.

There are other reasons, too, but I don’t want to argue especially given that I know I won’t convince those who are newly enamored with the ceramic version. And to me it’s a nice watch –one I’d like to have at the right price—but I also think it doesn’t hold a candle to the CFDV. The CDFV is more elegant, more versatile, better fitting, and a much better value. Plus it represents this forum.

Regards,
Michael

I Agree For The Same Reasons...

and between the two I'd pick the CFDV.

Unfortunately, I've got a number of other watches on my "wish list" for the time being.

Tracy (Honolulu)

Relative value

When I saw the pictures of the Portuguese Handwound Pure Classic "relative value" was the first thing that sprang to mind. An excellent Cal 88 or if you prefer centre seconds a Cal 89 in gold could be had for probably less than a quarter of the price with an IWC movement rather than a Piaget and a watch that is already a classic.

Your comment in relation to the Da Vinci "to me the incremental difference isn’t worth it. I find that huge, and I am amazed how collectors sometimes evaluate watches without considering relative value or absolute cost" sums up my comments above.

I'd be interested in the thoughts of other Forum members

Cheers from the cellar

Announcing a "secret" 2010 model: the Portuguese Handwound Pure Classic

Perhaps not (nt)

Intersting comparison, thank you Michael

I can understand you are biased, as the CFDV represents the forum, as you yourself do. And the CFDV is a nice enough watch indeed, for an interesting price. All the more there must be disappointment that this watch is only ordered by a bit more than a few handfuls, from the marketing and forum perspective you could call this a mild disaster.

I am not sure I understand the versatile argument. I never read about it when discussing the white gold Portuguese Perpetual Calendar or the Aquatimer Deep Two. Certainly when you have about ten IWC watches there is no need to discuss this argument, the only important issue to me is whether you really like a watch or not. Most of us have watches that compete for wrist time, and are chosen for the purpose or the mood of the moment ahead.

When introducing the new Da Vinci line quite on purpose IWC chose a different shape of the case, that would be controversial in the eyes of a lot of IWC diehards. The reason was that IWC wanted to broaden its customer base. Certainly in retrospective, but to be really true when designing something, you have to go all the way: when you compromise there is some friction that makes the whole design unconvincing. I have that feeling with the traditional Da Vinci until now, but not with the new ceramic Da Vinci Chrono. It is a design "out of one piece", it shows a unity in design that is very convincing. Whether you like it or not, this might be quite a success to people that like these kinds of watches.

The combination of ceramic and polished titanium fits this design really well. It makes it special and desirable to quite some technically interested people. And from the pictures shown here, it looks great. The design of the dial to me for the first time does justice to the shape of the case: again that sense of unity. I looked the Richard Mille watches up in a catalogue: IWC has nothing to be ashamed of, they really did a great job, for me there is enough IWC in this design when compared to Richard Mille. And when speaking of price, well, a lot of these Richard Milles have a price to be compared with the Grande Complication or Portuguese Tourbillon: you could compare this to the introduction of the IWC Perpetual Calendar in 1985 that was much cheaper than other perpetual calendars on the market. Comparing the ceramic Da Vinci Chrono to Casio is cheap in several ways and so out of order when you look at that razor sharp wrist shot of David Hamilton, I am not so sure IWC will like you to make this comparison.

Finally the price. I rather pay $ 4.000 more for a watch that I really like than to buy a watch I like only so so. I know I would regret this buy for the rest of the watches days with me, which is for the rest of my life as far as I am concerned: if I couldn't afford that extra money I would rather wait and see. I think that most people here, that are well to do, may agree that when considering a very beautiful watch of this price range those $ 4.000 are not the problem. The problem will be whether you like the watch enough or not.

Kind regards,
Paul, wearing steel VC Pilot's watch

Fair points...

I respect what you've added to discussion. Without debating all the issues, a few quick points, more for information and clarification.

1 IWC never expected anything like 100 of the CFDV --it was intentionally an exclusive watch. In one planning meeting in November, I expressly asked how they would feel if, say, 20, were sold. While obviously "the more, the merrier" that was just fine.

1. You can like ceramic --and so have I, as some of my collection and prior articles have reflected. But also, it really is primarily a sports watch material --used in flight watches, one Ingenieur with a bezel, etc. The same is true of most other manufacturers (Panerai and AP) who use it, with the main exception of (ouch) Rado. To me, it is a nice material but sporty. The nylon-looking strap with white stitching is sporty, too, and reflects that aesthetic. I also see some CEOs, especially in the States, wearing plastic black Casios with suits, On taste, to each his own.

2. Of course, I will never buy a watch I don't really like, and I like different watches for different reasons. I do like the CFDV for what it represents, and also I found it "in the real" much nicer and very versatile. But regardless if I really like something, $4000 plus or minus always is a huge difference to me. I won't buy something because it's a $4000 bargain, but I do consider value simply because money is always an issue, on every economic decision in an economic marketplace.

Regards,
Michael

Well I always think it is kind of...

funny when I see a guy in a multi thousand dollar, well tailored suit with a $25 black Casio watch. Seems wrong somehow.

you never know, and....

...given the prior CFI, there was a desire to accommodate everyone who might be interested. The edition could be reduced but could not be easily expanded for several reasons.

I assume you were just curious about a further explanation and not doubting my veracity. Hopefully this now suffices.

Michael
P.S. In terms of limitation, one thing that I believe IWC underestimated was what can be considered the mass psychology of cyberspace. As you know, several forum members vehemently attacked the final product; while I understand some points (and ask that they not been rehashed here) I also believe some comments were inappropriate. I do believe that the CFDV is a very fine watch, although not for everyone nor always a first choice. I will absolutely support what IWC did in offering this watch.

Ceramic of course doesn't equate with Casio....

...but I do believe that black zirconium watches from a distance look like inexpensive black plastic watches, and are in the same sporty appearance category as Casio.

Sorry if you don't like me saying that --I'm not superficial about looks, but I would find wearing a Top Gun watch with a dress suit as silly, and the same applies in my opinion to black zirconium watches with white-stitched straps--even if they had a tourbillon.

Exactly. nt

Appearance versus inner value

I like things that are well made and have excellent properties. Sometimes you see it from a distance, sometimes you have to look closely. Ceramic may look like plastic but it is not. It looks very sharp as it is very hard, and it will stay that way as long as you don't drop it on a stone floor and are very unlucky. Knowing that it is superb is enough for me, I wouldn't care what other people think of it. As long as the price is not extremely high of course.

In this same sense, what about the comparison between platinum and steel? I once just for fun took a huge interest for about 15 minutes in the platinum VC Portuguese. Apart from a faintly noticeable difference in weight I really did not see anything special when compared to my steel version. OK, you know it is platinum, but you pay a horrendous price for it. There I stopped.

Kind regards,
Paul, wearing steel VC Pilot's watch

Strap for the ceramic Da Vinci Chrono

I wonder whether the strap size for this watch is the same as for the CFDV. If so, you could order the black crocodile strap for the ceramic watch, using its deployant clasp. I guess it would really look classy then, if it does not look classy enough as it is.

Kind regards,
Paul, wearing steel VC Pilot's watch

I very much prefer the CFDV.

If it were only a choice between the two for this year, I would certainly go for the CFDV. My eye is on the new WG PPC right now, but we shall see.

Bill

I would have never figured that out ,)

This, again, is "of course". If you're happy wearing watches like this for dress, all I can say is to each his own.

I still believe that CFDV is far more versatile, looks far better as a dress watch, and has an equal if not better inner value. If you disagree, fine. If someone prefers an even larger watch, I say fine.

Personally, to me all watches are symbolic, and a watch made by especially for collectors and representing this forum represents a great inner value.To that extent, I agree with you about inner value.

Michael

CF Da Vinci is the only great watch even

if you don't really like it.

Argiris

The reasons delineated...

is why I ordered the CFDV upon first viewing. It also really matters to me it is the Collector’s Forum Da Vinci, and that makes a watch I appreciate aesthetically that much more special!

Best regards,
Jim