• Master
    5 Aug 2017, 4:51 a.m.

    I admit using the car industry analogy is not perfect. However, I was trying illustrate a different point.

    Anyway, may I ask why you feel IWC has neglected to develop basic models like Ingenieurs, Pilots and Aquatimers? I also want to know whether you are more concerned about IWC’s “seemingly lack of” focus on improving the so-called basic models, or as you mentioned in another paragraph, IWC not introducing more advanced products and technologies when compared with its major competitors?

    As I look back in IWC recent history, I noticed that every year or so IWC would revamp a series of watches. Along with revising the line, new movements and features are also introduced. While I am not sure whether these improvements are “enhancing basic models enough,” or introducing “enough advanced technologies,” I do see them as improvements.

    Movements alone, IWC under the leadership of Mr. Kern (OK, I am sure these aren’t just his ideas or contributions alone… but at least they happened in Kern’s time) have introduced digital date perpetual calendar for the Da Vinci series, successfully given us a relatively affordable flyback chronograph movement with 68-day power reserve, mono-pusher for Portofino chrono, siderale scafusia for the Portugieser, double-barrel 7-day movement, constant-force tourbillon for the Ingenieur, latest perpetual+chrono movement for the latest Da Vinci, revamped many of their movements with ceramic bearing, etc. etc. Some newer technologies are expensive yet nice, and some are just minor improvements on durability and functionality—but hey, at least they are not just focusing on serving the higher end or mass market of customers. Both get some innovations!

    Watch features on the other hand, I could see Ingenieur experiencing with different materials (and not only for the watch, also for the straps), Aquatimer introducing lume in its external bezel, then keeping the external bezel, but making it bi-directionally turnable while just rotating the internal indicator ring uni-directionally for diving safety, not to mention Pilot Timezoner time-zone easily-adjustable feature (OK, I admit this is through M&A, not IWC’s own R&D, but it is an innovation nonetheless), and the rotate-able lugs of the new Da Vinci, etc. etc. These are advancements that even the more “entry-level” users could enjoy. Not only that, but they are practical features that people could actually use, not just fancy enhancements. (Isn’t this what IWC has been known for all along—bringing advancement in an elegant way to its customers at a rather affordable price? I happen to think IWC continues to live up to this promise, at least somewhat)

    Perhaps I’m just too easily satisfied, but in my book, I see these as IWC’s recent advancements. Yes, IWC is a bit late to introduce a micro-length-adjustable bracelet, and their movements tend to be too big and too thick… but hey, at least they are making improvements in these areas.

    May I turn the table and humbly ask what have IWC’s major competitions bring to us in recent years that are ground-breaking? Yes, Rolex finally gives us a watch with moonphase. Yeah! How about Zenith? Any major technological advancement since the introduction of El Primero movement? True, Omega has co-axial movement and a-magnetic coil—and then what else, please? Let’s not forget co-axial escapement was not even an Omega’s own invention.

    Yes, H. Moser & Cie, Richard Mille, A Lange & Sohne, etc. arguably have given the industry a lot more innovations in recent years. However, they are not really in the same league as IWC.

    I don’t know, like I said, maybe I am just a happy customer that can easily be satisfied. I certainly have no big complaints on IWC under Kern’s leadership. Sure, Kern is different from Günter Blümlein. Nonetheless, I think the environment and challenges are different. Besides, if Kern is no Blümlein, that doesn’t necessarily mean he was a bad leader.

    I understand we all love the brand, and want it to do well. Sometimes the directions it has taken may deviate from our wish. Is that necessarily a bad thing though? I think IWC as a company has a lot to consider, and balances to strike. To me, I simply appreciate what Kern has been through, and the watches that IWC has put out--and that's why I still keep buying.

    Just my 2c worth.

  • Connoisseur
    5 Aug 2017, 8:44 a.m.

    Sorry, I should have been more explicit. I meant especially the movements in base models i.e. IWC calibers 30110 and 35111. I agree that IWC has introduced interesting new movements in higher price categories, but these "workhorse calibers" are in my opinion not competitive anymore considering what some others are proposing in the same price range nowadays.

    I'm well aware of the good qualities of ETA 2892-based movements (after all, I own a Spitfire MKXVI, and an Aquatimer 3536), but today, they are somewhat outgunned by the best from competitors that offer the exclusivity of in-house movements with features like amagnetism, longer power reserve, new materials, new escapement technologies etc...

    I don't want to go deeper in specific competitors here, as this is an IWC-backed forum after all, but as I happen to be a Zenith collector as well, I want to point out that they have done a lot since the introduction of ElPrimero, the latest one being a watch with a separate super high-frequency (50Hz!) escapment for the chronograph functions. They also have a very good in-house movement (Elite) for their basic models.

  • Master
    6 Aug 2017, 1:37 a.m.

    Thanks for the clarification. I agree with you, Zenith does make some interesting movements, and continues in doing so. This surely is an area where IWC can improve. However, that still hasn't discount the fact that IWC has been innovating as well.

    Actually what you said echoed what I said earlier. A watch company needs to be relevant, not just being an "engineering" company. How many CEO's Zenith has had in the past 5-6 years? 3? 4? my hometown is known for having all sorts of watch boutiques of many many different brands. Starting in this year, surprisingly Zenith no longer has its own boutique. (It has 1 or 2 in the past years). Now it has to share its boutique with Tag Heuer and Hublot? To me, that's a sign of a struggling company.

    The Elite 6150 is marvelous... but its was originally announced in... what, mid 1990's? it just took them more than a decade or two to mass-produce them (with some feature enhancements). The El Primero 21 is also in the category of what I would consider as "neat." Yes, the chronograph hand swifts through the dial at a very rapid rate of 50Hz. Because of the power needed to drive this, Zenith needed a separate escapement and power-reserve indicator to run this--and for how long? less than 60 mins. Interesting, yes. To me though, I find the IWC 89361 calibre's watch-within-a-watch functionality just as innovative (but in a different way).

    Anyway, I am not saying IWC should be complacent, and there are certainly lots of new innovations that IWC can introduce... and I know newer movements are coming from IWC. So, let's wait and see. Don't give up your hopes just yet! :-)

  • Master
    7 Aug 2017, 1:46 a.m.

    My wish list has become longer and longer in the area of Mr. Georges Kern. That means for me that many great watches have come to light in his area. He brought the company and the watches to the next level.
    Surely it needs many skilled hands and smart heads to do this. It's not just the work of one person. But he did without a doubt the relevant steering of this.
    What is wrong with limited editions if they bring beautiful watches to us and great success to the company?
    The only thing is the price level which for me gets more and more a problem to fulfil new watch dreams.
    But on the other hand: Is there a company that makes better, more beautiful watches for a lower price? For me, I have to answer that with NO. But a fine watch has always been a piece of luxury for a few who can and want to afford.
    So we will miss you, Mr. Georges Kern. You did a lot for the company and us collectors too!

  • Apprentice
    12 Aug 2017, 1:17 p.m.

    This is a very good news. I hope IWC will recover its 1990's spirit: Sober, efficient, technically on top.

  • Apprentice
    12 Aug 2017, 1:17 p.m.

    This is a very good news. I hope IWC will recover its 1990's spirit. Sober, efficient, technically on top.

  • Master
    13 Aug 2017, 10:07 a.m.

    So, I don't care at all about the celebrity stuff, and the auto racing attention, and all kinds of foundations, except that I believe people working around those fields work hard: hearing off-line about that work is interesting, I always like stories about challenges and objectives, and how to meet them.

    Mr. Kern made IWC quite a successful watch company, which is a not too easy achievement. In itself that may not be too interesting either, except I happen to like quite a lot of watches that are made by IWC: probably the percentage of watches liked is about the highest at IWC when compared to other brands.

    When considering the Kern-era, there is a simple criterion on which to judge it: not the amount of opinions in favour or not, but the voting by the wallet. Here, I must say that the Kern-era was quite successful for Mr. Kern, him making sure my wallet is emptier than it could have been. I bought watches that I really, really liked, both from the point of view of looks, finishing and technical achievement. Let's see:
    - titanium Ingenieur AMG
    - rose gold Pilot's chrono St. Exupéry
    - steel Portuguese Vintage Collection
    - rose gold Portuguese Vintage Collection
    - steel Pilot's watch Vintage Collection
    - steel Portofino 8 days handwound
    - steel Pilot's chrono Spitfire
    - steel Ingenieur taupe dial Vintage Collection
    - steel Pilot's Worldtimer
    - steel Mark XVIII Little Prince

    10 watches in about 10 years: either Mr. Kern was a genius, or I lost my mind for quite a long period of time.

    Kind regards,
    Paul

  • Connoisseur
    14 Aug 2017, 10:07 a.m.

    Before Georges Kern or like-minded people, the ownership should change. The conglomerates have just killed the soul of the watchmaking art.

    Fashion focused managements are seriously damaging culture and the DNA of the brand.

  • Master
    14 Aug 2017, 11:40 a.m.

    Strong words, which I quite endorse...
    Nevertheless, I would not think that all new managements of modern times have same philosophies...

    When we talk about watchmaking, I see new calibres...new complications...
    During the last 10 years, Blancpain for example came up with 35 (!) new calibres...
    Moser, which re-started in 2005, and which is a tiny brand compared to the established brands has so far created 9-10 excellent and innovative in-house movements...

    I would really be curious to know during the last 10 years, under the reign of G Kern, how many new in-house movements IWC has developed.
    This is really not to challenge, it's simply indeed out of curiosity.

  • Master
    14 Aug 2017, 2:05 p.m.

    I counted in the past 12 years, under the leadership of Kern, below are the somewhat major movements released (pardon me if I have missed any):

    80110 Ingenieurs – 2005
    89360 Da Vinci Chrono – 2007
    89800 Da Vinci Digital Date – 2009
    59210 Portofino 8-day – 2011
    94900 Portugieser Sidérale Scafusia – 2011
    94800 Ingenieur Constant Force Tourbillon – 2013
    52010/52850 – Portugieser 7-day Auto/Annual Calendar - 2015
    95360 – Portofino Monopusher – 2015
    59220 – Portofino Big Date - 2015
    69370 Ingenieur chrono - 2016
    59900 Portofino Tourbillon Retrograde - 2017
    89630 Da Vinci Perpetual Calendar – 2017
    89900 Da Vinci Tourbillon Retrograde Chrono - 2017
    59800 Portofino 8-day Moonphase – 2017

    14?

    I do not count the ETA-modified like the movement for Pilot Worldtimer and Ingenieur dual-time

  • Connoisseur
    16 Aug 2017, 11:09 a.m.

    When you love a brand so much, you only want it to be a pioneer in every possible way. I just want to see IWC as it is in the past. I can easily be satisfied with the 90's performance of design.

  • Master
    16 Aug 2017, 3:38 p.m.

    Can you elaborate it a bit, to help us understand what you mean by "90's performance of design?"

  • Master
    16 Aug 2017, 4:24 p.m.

    ?? Why a comment like that?

    You have five posts in this threat and I understand you were a fan but I can't agree with the 'in your eyes boring' post.

    Nothing boring. I agree with 'boring post'

  • Master
    17 Aug 2017, 10:05 a.m.

    It is an established tradition of this forum to always be polite and respect the points of view of other forum members and, when these diverge, agree to disagree. Belittling the points of view of other forum members is unbecoming.

  • 17 Aug 2017, 1:23 p.m.

    Thank you Antonio, as I stated before...

  • Connoisseur
    17 Aug 2017, 5:46 p.m.

    Sure, Kelvin. What I mean by 90s design is innovative, functional and honest design in terms of calibers, case material and legibility.

  • Master
    17 Aug 2017, 6:29 p.m.

    Hmm, the criteria mentioned are not restricted to the 90's.
    - innovative: in the 00's and 10's there were more new movements than in the 90's that were revolutionary and in the end quite good, like the movements for the Big Pilot, the Portuguese Automatic, the Portuguese Perpetual Calendar, the Portuguese Yacht Club, the Ingenieur Automatic, the Portuguese Annual Calendar.
    - functional: all the watches from the 00's and 10's are quite functional, see the watches mentioned above. I'm not sure what you mean with functional here, which watches of the 90's do you consider more functional than the newer watches?
    - case material: most watches of the 00's and the 10's were in steel, gold, titanium, ceramic, as the watches of the 90's. Which materials do you miss in the 00's and 10's line-up?
    - legibility: I bought 10 00's and 10's watches, they all are quite legible.

    So, I really don't quite get your points about the 90's watches versus the 00's and 10's watches. I could get that you like the older watches more than the newer watches, but that cannot have anything to do with the criteria you mentioned.

    Can you give examples of 90's watches you particularly like?

    Kind regards,
    Paul