Guidance needed: On what are reasonable expectations for the 30110 caliber

Dear knowledgeable watch lovers:

I bought a Mark XVII in August. I began testing its daily accuracy with an atomic clock. For a week it was +3/+4 daily. Then it changed to a range of +4/+6. I sent it to IWC for regulation. First day, +3, then +4, then +1, now +6.

1. Is this variation normal for this caliber?
2. What is a reasonable and realistic daily range?

I don't want to keep pestering IWC, nor do I want inferior performance. My Aqua Terra is +2 daily, solidly, consistently, reliably.

I welcome any and all advice and comments.

With great appreciation.

RW

Thank you Michael. I am aware of the COSC standards and IWC's tolerances. The difference between the Aqua Terra's 8500 and the IWC 30110 (2892A2) is striking. I have read technical reports that target the 2892A2 to +3. Hence, I continue to consult our esteemed compatriots. Thank you. RW

RW, IWC Specification is 0 to +7 secs per day, so your watch is within IWC tolerance. Enjoy wearing the watch.

RW,

You are quite right about the Omega 8500 movement being extremely consistent - technically this is called isochronism, and is not the same as accuracy. A watch that is say, consistently 10 seconds fast per day under any conditions, has perfect isochronism. It also means that in the hands of a competent watchmaker its accuracy can be regulated to within 1-2 s/day. If a watch with good initial isochronism is properly regulated, you get what your AT 8500 does - and so does mine, gaining 1s/week, regardless of anything. The ETA 2892-A2 is not that good, variations of 2-3 s/day in isochronism either way are not uncommon. But it also depends somewhat on luck - my Aquatimer 3548 is actually dead-on, also regardless of anything.

Whenever I got a new watch - or even a pre-loved one that has been sitting idle for some time - I found that it could take the movement as much as three weeks to settle in a steady rhytm. My Ingenieur 3239 started off by being +3.5s/day, but after three weeks is now +1s/day. If you are obsessed - and I stress the word obsessed - with both accuracy and isochronism, you should try to find a local watchmaker who can regulate your watches according to your feedback. But beware, if you change your wearing habits or level of activity, you may need to have it regulated anew.

If you can take a few words of advice from someone who used to be as obsessed by accuracy as you are: when you get a new watch, by all means, check its performance for a few weeks. If it performs within plus-minus three second per day (my own COSC standard), leave it well enough alone and enjoy it for what it is. Or just go and try to have it perfectly regulated, but know that, in the words of King Lear: "O, that way madness lies."

Thank you Dénesa. Your comments are very helpful and obviously well-informed. Gratefully, RW

Michael, thanks for the information and pointing us to the excellent article by Walt Odets, which is now logged in my watch 'library'.

Michael,

only a fool would take offense when given the opportunity to learn. Keep up spreading the knowledge, Sensei!

Dear RW:

You've unleashed a wonderful post, and I can only chime in with Sensei that I have learned a lot. And thank you, Michael, for that disquisition on accuracy vs. consistency--consistently fascinating AND accurate, no doubt.

One quibble: I winced when I read that the 30110 movement "isn't that good" (i.e., not as good as your Omega's). I confess my pro-IWC bias here: I doubt whether any Omega movement can be superior to an IWC one. As many previous posts have established, the 30110 is so heavily reworked that it cannot any longer fairly be considered an ETA movement at all.

I would not be at all surprised if over the next several weeks (assuming steady use) your 30110 movement settled down to within two seconds per day(which seems to be your target).

Enjoy!

Cheers,

Donald

Donald,

I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a theological debate, but there is a lot of empirical evidence around the 'net suggesting what my personal experience was and is with five different Omegas all equipped with the 8500 movement: their accuracy, regardless of anything, is nothing short of excellent.

Having said that, none of my past or present IWCs (30110 or 80110 movements, six different watches) ran outside a 0 to +2s/day tolerance. And if I would only be allowed to keep one watch, it would undoubtedly be my beloved Aquatimer 3548. And if the Vintage Collection Aquatimer would have been just 2mm smaller in diameter, it would have snatched the crown from the 3548 in no time. Even so, it took almost a year to part with it: it was too large for my wrist, but exquisite nonetheless.

Denes,

Ouch....parting with the VC-AT must have been extremely painful. No one should have to endure that kind of suffering.

Andy

Andy,

I've since made peace with the fact that anything above 42mm just feels awkward on my wrist (7.2 inches, so not that scrawny), whether it really is or not. But it was an in-and-out deal with no loss or gain in financial terms, just a lesson learned. So that's why I'm really looking forward to the new Aquatimer collection, maybe it has something for me - but it would have to have an inner bezel.

Yep...I understand what you're saying. It's kinda like a fine pair of shoes. You can love the way they look, but if it doesn't have a comfortable fit..in the closet they stay.

Regarding the 2014 AT's...got a sneaky suspicion there's going to be something special for you.

BTW, aren't you due for an arrival in the next few days ? Hope all is on track.

Andy

I also hope so. Early last week the dealer told me that they haven't yet received the LPPs, but that their contact at IWC said they are at the top of the list. I'm guessing slow production, and/or unexpectedly high demand. Whatever. Good things are worth waiting for.

Forgive me Denes but I can't help myself....maybe they're holding them up a bit waiting for a LE plaque to include (LOL) Now of course, that would be a good thing...Right?

Hope any delay is a short one...and yes, I can assure you, it will be worth the wait.

Andy

Hi all! Thanks for the nice and interesting posts. I'm very new to watch contemplation ;-) and every information is good information.
A few weeks ago I saw and felt in love with the Mark XVII LPP and I tried everything to get it. I manage to put hands on it coincidentally with the birth of my second daughter a week ago so it is something special to me now. It's my first automatic watch and I did a bit of research before getting on it and despite the ETA debate I just cannot help loving the LPP every time I look at it.
It is giving me +5/6 secs per day at the moment but I guess it just needs a bit of settling. I know it is within specs but is more on the further +6 than the +0 spec.
Any feedback from yours, Dénesa? What do you think of yours?

Thanks again!

Ric

Hello again!

I have been testing my LPP for a few days now and in 10 days it lost 80 secs!

That is more than 6 secs a day. Is it normal for a new watch? I read on previous post that the movement needs settling, is it true or should I have it checked by my AD?

Thanks for your help!

Riccardo