Help me make a decision on Portugese Perpetual Calendar (5021 vs 5032)

What a beautiful watch. I am looking at buying a used model IW502103. It's rose gold with a black face. Movement is 50611.

My question: What are the differences between the newer and older PPC'c?
I know the red vs rose gold difference. Seems that is a matter of taste?
And I can see the differences on the dial and crown.

The major question concerns the movements: 50611 vs 51614. Your thoughts on how the movements compare in the real world?

Does it matter if I am buying the older version vs. the newer version? Accuracy, reliability, desirability?

Just my head in the way on this one! I think I want to feel very comfortable!
Thanks!
Popspin

My inclination would be to buy the new one. But that is a matter of preference. I like the red gold versus pink gold.

I happen to own a 5021 with the 50611 movement (pictured below). The slow-beat movement at 2.5hz versus the 3.0hz in the new one really does not seem to matter. Last I checked it varies between +1 to +3 seconds per day. That's the same in my newer, "fast-beat" perpetuals. I like the appearance abd detail of the larger, screwed-balance wheel in the older 50611. It's fun to look at.

You may also notice other differences on the dial too - such as the numerical countdown on the moonphase, which is nice in the new one.

It's a fun decision you have - and honestly, I dont think you can go wrong with either. Best of luck!

I have the 5032 and I cannot recommend it enough. However, the 5021 showing above is equally as beautiful, and if the "innards" are just as good,maybe price should factor in? And from whom are you buying an older one?

Hi PADJ and Ardoise;

I have an opportunity, through a mutual friend, to buy a little used 5021. I mean very little use; literally a handful of wearings during the first 7 years then weekends for less than a year.
I have noticed the differences between the old and new models. I like some of the changes such as the numerical countdown and design on the moon phase as you pointed out, Ardoise. I don't care as much about the 2,4,8 and 10 being "complete" (does that mean the sub-dials are smaller or the watch got bigger?), and I prefer the the original non-red hands on the sub dials.
So for me the changes are a push. My decision comes down to the helpful answer I got from Ardoise that directly addressed the day to day differences I might notice between the 2 movements.
Am I crazy to think some of the changes were made to increase profit on the watch? The red gold, while still 18k, contains more copper than the old rose gold. And while the movement is likely more reliable and accurate, it did lose 2 jewels and contains fewer pieces. And the switch to the red pointers; not sure what the older ones are made of but could they have been gold?

Ardoise, are you planning on selling your 5021 and replace it with the 5032?

Thanks so much for your responses. Hearing from others who have real experience with the watch is such a huge help! I am just trying to make sure I am not buying into a passel of problems. It seems that I am going to be very pleased with this watch.

I don't think losing 2 jewels is a negative; it may mean the movement is more efficient. I think Ardoise and others who have collected IWCs longer can address most of your other concerns.
But, at the risk of complicating your decision further, IWC has eliminated the white dial in the current collection-which I feel is a shame. The dial on the perpetual Ardoise posted above is quite stunning. At least the 5032 has beautiful black and blue dials to choose from. The 5023 is another choice for you but still no white dial.
Good luck. You can't go wrong with any of them.

Hi PADJ;
You guys have been very helpful. Yes, it is a loss not having the white dial as an option. Such a beautiful "background" for the watch.
My primary concern was to make sure the changes between the 5021 and 5032 we minor and not a major re-do to eliminate serious problems with the movement. It appears the changes were more of an evolutionary and aesthetic nature. That makes me feel good about the older version which has been presented to me as a buying opportunity.

BTW, I am just north of NYC, not so far from Toms River. Used to live in Morris County years ago..lots of time in an audio store in Millburn.
Thanks again!
popspin

PADJ and POPSPIN -

Great discussion here. Makes me appreciate the variety and differences between these references even more. Makes the 5021 and 5032 seem different enough to appreciate them both even more - not just an evolution of the Portuguese a Perpetual.

I am practically a "neighbor" too. Living in Northern Vermont, I get down to Manhattan monthly. Let's consider a meet up at the Flagship boutique to inspect some more Perpetuals!

I completely forgot about the complete/incomplete numerals on the 5032/5021 dials. The dial diameter and case diameters are the same. It appears the numerals are a little smaller on the the 5032. Not sure about the subdials. I sort of like the incomplete numerals on the 5021 - more about their larger size.

With regard to the movement. IWC is always investing in their movement technology. The cal 5000 family is one of the very first production shifts toward all in-house in a line of series production. Introduced in the Portuguese 2000 in the year 2000. The latest calibres, with the Glucydur beryllium alloy balance are not as pretty to look at as the former screwed-balance with their heavier, larger, eccentric swing pattern - but, I bet it affords better adjustment/regulation, and service times. It doesn't 'cheapen' the movement - but wears/performs better over longer terms.

Here are a few frames of animated photos of the back of my 5021, taken a few years ago. You can see the magnitude of the balance. Also note the bridge engraved "sixty six (66) jewels". In fact, the 50611 has only 64 jewels, but the original design had 66. IWC already made some bridges with "66" and they put them on the watches...

2 points: the numbers on the 5021 are a bit more harmonious to the size of the dial-my only criticism of the 5032 (and the 5001) would be the rather small numbers on the large dial.
I will be in NYC February 5th for a doctor's visit and lunch with my AD, only blocks from the Boutique. That may be packing in too much for a get-together and the date might not work for you two. But I live close!

Helo PADJ;
Very nice idea to get together at the Boutique. I will be out of town traveling in early February but I'm open to trying again at another time. I will be back there after IWC completes work on my 20+ year old SL Automatic.
I did miss the obvious on the numbers; they are smaller. I do agree with comments about the differences in size in relation to the face.
Can you tell me if the brown alligator strap with deployment is made by Kaufman or Fournet?
I miss the watch when I have something else on my wrist...
Thanks!
popspin

I would like to get a certain response about the following:

I am in the process of buying the IWC Portuguese perpetual calendar 5032-02, but there is a slightly difference in price with the 5021. Does anybody know the difference between these 2 timepieces?
I really appreciate a prompt response,
Much appreciated,

DA

Hello again PADJ;
I recently dropped of my Portuguese for a service. After having another IWC recently serviced and based on my current service experience with the Portuguese I am not impressed with this side of IWC.
I will need to pick up my watch from the boutique about a month from now so I wanted to propose that as a potential meeting time if there was any interest.
I already miss not having my watch and it's only been a week...
popspin

I have enjoy this post so far and was wondering, did you get your 5021?

If yes, is there any problem with it as you have mention about sending it in for a service?

Hi fleekk;
I am thrilled with the 5021. It has not been serviced since it was new and I felt it was time.
The problems I had were not with the watch but with IWC Boutique staff (no sense of customer service) and the IWC Service Center (added $290 for a new band automatically without even looking at my band. My band is new.)

I would be curious how others feel about using the Service Center. How often do you service your PC? Do you keep it away from the service center if it works or do you perform preventative maintenance? (this may be worth a thread)
Popspin

Hi Popspin,

I do not own a PPC, but i do not send my IWCs in if there is nothing wrong with them even after 5 years. If there is any problem, I will send it thru the IWC boutique which is available over where I live and no problem so far with all the IWC staffs.

Look forward to some photos from you.

The 5032 has double moon, the 5021 has one.Correction-5023 has a single moon.

Send an email when you are going. If i can I'll meet you.
My LPP has been in for fixing since February 12 and I haven't even gotten a word from IWC.

Hi Mike;
I will contact you towards the April/May time period. Hope we can work something out.
Maybe they will have taken care of your watch by then...
Bob

Hi Mike:
I am pleased to say my PPC is being delivered to my home tomorrow morning after a full service. According to Simar, assistant manager of the NYC boutique, it is looking very good. I can't wait to see it! It was already in excellent shape but since the rotor was hanging up occasionally I thought it best to treat the watch to service.
I wanted to follow up on our meeting at the IWC Boutique in NYC. Can we set a time? And anybody else that wants to join us should chime in too.
By the way, Mike, an unrelated question - was Genta involved in designing the very simple DaVinci SL from around the late 90's? Maybe earlier? It is so simple and elegant and I see a relation between it and the Genta Ingenieur's.
So funny but the DaVinci SL is the exact opposite of the PPC and I love both of them!
Did IWC get to deal with your watch yet?
My schedule is flexible. Let me know.
Bob

[QUOTE="popspin"]Hi Mike:
I am pleased to say my PPC is being delivered to my home tomorrow morning after a full service. According to Simar, assistant manager of the NYC boutique, it is looking very good. I can't wait to see it! It was already in excellent shape but since the rotor was hanging up occasionally I thought it best to treat the watch to service.
I wanted to follow up on our meeting at the IWC Boutique in NYC. Can we set a time? And anybody else that wants to join us should chime in too.
By the way, Mike, an unrelated question - was Genta involved in designing the very simple DaVinci SL from around the late 90's? Maybe earlier? It is so simple and elegant and I see a relation between it and the Genta Ingenieur's.
So funny but the DaVinci SL is the exact opposite of the PPC and I love both of them!
Did IWC get to deal with your watch yet?
My schedule is flexible. Let me know.
Bob[/QUOT

Hi, Bob
I am away from 5/2 to 5/7. I'll reach out after.
I have never heard that Gerald Genta had any connection to any DaVinci.
Got my watch back Tuesday. IWC could not replicate the problem I complained of. It does seem to be working so far.
Mike

M. Popspin
I will be in NYC 8/13, but not before then.

Hello Mike;
OK Let's shoot for August. I'm moving around a lot between now and the end of July so that works well for me.
My watch seems to have a new problem - the date does not synch properly with the day displayed. Never had this happen before the service...No, I didn't try to reset it during the "forbidden period". Any thoughts?
Time to visit the Boutique again!
Bob (popspin)

Hello PADJ!!
You still out there? If so let me know. I am headed back to the Boutique soon to have the newly resident watchmaker check out my watch because it seems to be running fast.
How are you? Travels done for a while?
Bob (popspin)

[QUOTE="popspin"]Hello PADJ!!
You still out there? If so let me know. I am headed back to the Boutique soon to have the newly resident watchmaker check out my watch because it seems to be running fast.
How are you? Travels done for a while?
Bob (popspin)[/QUOT

Email me, Bob.

Gentlemen,

I recognize it's been almost 2 years since the last message on this thread, but like Popspin I am interested in a 5021 which happens to be up for sale in the NY area.

I'm interested in learning if the issues with Popspin's watch were resolved, and the story about what happened since he brought it in for service.

Lastly, I'm also relocating to NY within the next several months, so maybe you're interested in another meet up at the IWC boutique in Manhattan.

Regards,
Mark