There is not to much up, here in the "Vintage Forum Section".
(I only found some "Help me to write my auction description" threads ;-)
As usual the silly season it is the time to warm up some old stories hoping on new facts:
It seems that I am becoming old and I forgot the reference of the first officially water-resitant IWC pocket watch.
I only remember there was a "21" in the Ref. number.
Are there out some ideas and maybe pictures of that watch?
kind regards
Ralph
I'm sure this is the wrong answer, but was it the cal.83 military wristwatches supplied to the British forces in the 1940's ?
After all WWW means wrist watch waterproof.
the only IWC pocketwatch that was water-resistant was to my knowledge the Ingenieur ref 5215.
Just missed one last week at an auction :(
To me, the real question is whether a water resistant pocketwatch makes sense. It's nice looking, it's rare, but it seems to be an oxymoron. Certainly not a trend picked up by other companies, presumably since it's neither utilitarian nor haute horology.
Well, these ordinary PWs are officially water-resistant tested by myself :-)
And they have a 5"21"5 ref.
But I am sure, you do not mean this model ?
But because this model got the INGENIEUR branding, it should have the significant features of an INGENIEUR model.
Water resistant
Magnetic resistant
Shock resistant
Saphire glass
Too many modern Ingenieur models do not have these specific features ?!
So, the ref. 5215 is a result of a very ceative era and one of the best performing IWC PWs, so what ?!
Hmmm....
You really don't belive me I forgot the number ....
Yes 5210 has "21" in it's number, this was the joke.
When I was digging in my mind a bit deeper,
I found the complete number Ref. 212.
For the wather resistance: I Switzerland we have some times rain (more than I like) and when walking outdoor prefered in the forest, I may get through and through wet. In that case I am happy to be wather resistant up to my (pocket) watch.
Someone heared of Ref. 212?
regards
Ralph
OK, I open the box....
Kind regards
Ralph
P.S. the blue on the hands is an image failure of the scanner...
One of the most interesting posts since many month, thanks Ralph.
I want to know much more about this rare watch, please.
When was it launched ?
Which movement ?
The case looks as an usual case for PWs.
Regards
HEBE
Very interesting reading, thank you!
If IWC decided it was a good idea to make a water ressistant PW, to show technical skills maybe ? , and for people who like to take a walk in the rain, Swiss maybe ?, who are we to question such daring entreprenerial skills ?
One follow up question, when did IWC introduce the ref numbers and what was the first , 001 or 101 ??
Hello Hebe.
Just some details i know by heart:
The movement is a c.89.
The case is smaller than an ordinary c.95/c.97 case (will measure it) and has a joint under the snapped on back cover.
More later...
Kind regards
Ralph
Hello HEBE an others,
some additional information:
Diameter: 42mm
Height: 9.5mm
Production approx: 1962/3
How the whater resistance is done (from the back cover) you see below
regards
Ralph
Thanks for those interesting details, Ralph.
From the 60s. My estimation was some decades earlier.
Indeed a very interesting watch.
Regards
HEBE
A "decades earlier" water-resistant Pocket Watch would have been a really great find/sensation, but...
... just to leave a word about "rare":
It seems IWC planed to build 50 pieces of the Ref 212, but only about 30 where finally sold...
regards
Ralph
Great threat Ralph, Heiko. Thanks!
B.
Sorry, I have to correct the numbers.
Based on the find, David could figure more of this watches:
A total of 100 pieces was produced and also sold.
Kind regards
Ralph (Switzerland is too hot (close to 38°C/100°F) went to lower temperature in Allan Park MI)
I agree with hebe : top information from Ralph.
Further I understand the consideration of hebe regarding the term waterproof : if you call a watch an Ingenieur, it should have the specifications of an IWC Ingenieur. For me it means not specifically that one should dive or swim with a pocket watch Ingenieur, nor to submerge in a glass of water. But it means that the case closes more for water and moisture than any other pw, which is an advantage.
Kind regards,
Adrian,
(alwaysiwc).
Oh goodness gracious me fellows - I almost missed this post entirely!
Now of course, I could say (always easy after the fact) "I knew that" - but if I did so, I would be telling a fib, as I did not. Really interesting post and thanks Ralph for sharing.
Now of course, this raises the question of when LAST did IWC actually case pocket watch movements in Borgel cases.
I raise the question, for as this excellent article by our good and knowledgeable friend David Boettcher points out - Borgel was taken over by Taubert & Fils. And as we read in that same article, quote : "by the late 1920s the Tauberts were making progress towards a satisfactory design for a modern waterproof case. In 1928 and 1931 they registered two patents that would renew and reinforce their prominent place in the lead of waterproof watch case design, and carry the firm forward for the next 30 or more years."
And they had a pretty smart cork based system (photo courtesy of David Boettcher)
So the question is there - were any IWC pocket watches sold in Borgel / Taubert & Fils manufactured cases which would then have been early IWC waterproof watches.
Dear Mark,
The first author that mentioned Borgel cases for IWC PW's was the late Friedrich Wagner.
I had the pleasure to work with him on several articles on the topic in 2005. This , because Friedrich asked me to translate the French patents 4001, 4041 from 8 and 28 October 1891, submitted by François Borgel in Geneva.
Borgel cases and also the later Taubert cases were not waterproof, if one maintains the modern specifications, but of course more resistant to entry of water or moisture than the "normal" PW's, which had a snap-on case. The crown was not the only possible entry place for water. The movement with the dial on top was screwed into the case. Here was no extra seal such as a rubber ring and the water could penetrate if such watch was submerged long enough.
As you know the first Borgel watch by IWc were sold in 1893 and this was before IWC was delivering movements to Stauffer. The cooperation between Stauffer and IWC started in 1904. The Borgel cases were not made inhouse by IWC but bought from Borgel as was done for the other IWC PW's that came from manufacturers who were specialised in making cases for the Swiss watch industry. Borgel cases were not very popular as customers were not specifically demanding "waterproof" watches. Moreover the construction was such that the watch was rather thick.
Kind regards,
Adrian,
(alwaysiwc).
I washed accidental a ref. 5604 pocketwatch in the washing machine and it has survived undamaged ;-)
I think you were quit lucky. This watch has no joints. Due the small movement the bigger distance between the edge and movement (and the long stemm) it seems no wather could reach the movement.
I'd not try it again....
regards
Ralph
One is NEVER to old to learn - and here I learn that IWC had pocket watches fitted with the venerable calibre 89!
Amazing.
