IWC MARK XI: To restore or not to restore that is the question.

Hi Everyone,

My name is Jamie and I'm new to the forum and looking for some advice and support from the excellent knowledge pool that lies within this forum.
After quite a long time of saving my pennies I’ve managed to purchase the Mark XI.
As you can see from photo's the dial is not in the best condition like some of the pristine examples I've seen on this forum.
[](s44.photobucket.com/user/Podbert76/media/IWC%20Mark%20XI/IMG_0304_zpsqsebgrym.jpg.html)
I've taken the watch to a specialist and he's advised that no work should be done on the dial. He has stated the watch requires a service and an ultrasonic clean which I’ve given the go ahead to do.
An interesting find when opening the watch was that it still had a VPI anti corrosion disc with THE GOLDSMITHS & SILVERSMITHS COMPANY LTD on it.
Purely from an aesthetic point of view I'm now in two minds whether to get the dial restored or changed by IWC, and wanted to hear the views of the good people here.
If anyone would care to share their advice it would be greatly appreciated from my side.
Apologies in advance if I have posted this question on the wrong part of the forum. Best Regard Jamie

Hello Jamie and welcome to the forum. I'd stick with the advice your specialist gave you and not mess with the dial. It sounds like your watch may be original and it would be a shame to alter that. If you want a "new" one, the current Mark XVIII "Tribute to Mark XI" is very nice! I would, however, love to see your watch - can you re-post your photo from another photo-sharing site? Photobucket kicked it but Flickr works (you just need to identify and crop the bb code for the image).

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the welcome, i'm no expert in sharing images so theres a good chance this will go wrong, anyway I'll give it a shot. Appreciate the advice given, with my limited knowledge I have feeling the watch has it's original radium dial which I know some people don't like as the one with the T appeals to some collectors. I'm hoping the condition of the dial grows on me. As for the new tribute to Mark XI, agree this is lovely looking watch, trouble is it's going to take me a fair while to save up again for one of these. The original plan was to get the dial restored on the XI however my watch specialist seams to think this would be a mistake and alter on the originality of the watch too much. Thanks again for the reply.
www.flickr.com/photos/137789628@N07/shares/w7CoQn
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www.flickr.com/photos/137789628@N07/shares/i69ZcV
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www.flickr.com/photos/137789628@N07/shares/pCc8RM

Hi Ben,

If I'm not mistaken if you copy and and paste the links into your search bar you can see a few photos of the watch before she was sent away for service and clean.

Thanks.

Jamie.

Don't touch that dial.
It's beautiful and displays a ton of history, which will be erased if you clean, restore or replace.

Thanks Mark, appreciate your feedback,that's pretty much what my watch specialist said. I can see your point about the history I expect it's had a life and I should leave her alone. I suppose my head has been turned after seeing on this forum what those Masters at Schaffhausen can do on the restoration front, some of the watches that come back are in unbelievable condition. In reality I'm just happy to be part of club that now owns one of these wonderful watches.
Really interesting though to hear yours and the fellow forums members opinions on what they feel is the right thing to do.
Thanks again.
Jamie.

Hi Jamie, you’ve got a beautiful historic Mark XI!! Love the faded patina on the dial & with matching hands! Agreed with Ben, if you want a newer watch buy another Tribute to Mark XI for daily wear.

What a lovely Mark 11. You already had good advice. Don't touch the dial. I have attached a photo of my Mark 11. That's how it looks after a restoration. I had to do that because somebody had tried to repaint the dial. I would much rather have your original dial with patina.
JK
[](flic.kr/p/ZPQRiw)IWC Mark 11 by

Thanks for the advice Hong and JK. Your watch looks great by the way. The restoration guys do an amazing job. It's seams to me so far that everyone is sticking with the advice already given to me by my watch specialist, which is leave the dial well alone !!! Cant help but admire your's and how clean it looks.
Thanks for sharing.

Jamie.

Jamie, your dial may be a pre-tritium dial. There is no circled T on the dial. Tritium dials from around 1963 replaced the earlier dials which had radium markers and were considered to be a health and safety risk to the people who regularly serviced the watches. I would leave the dial alone. However, servicing the watch may be an issue because of the fragility of the hands.

Thanks for the feedback Rave.
I wonder why the dial was never replaced? I'd assume that that watch would have been sent back for service at some point in it's life time.
I'm hoping that the watch specialist will be able to service the movement and with a bit of the luck the hands will come off without breaking. Fingers crossed.
I'll know for sure this week as he'll be contacting me to let me know how he gets on.
Does anyone know if I should be concerned with wearing the watch if this dial has radium on it? or as you state is this mainly a risk for the people the service them and spent long periods working with these kind of dials. Would be a nightmare to finally get hold of one of the lovely watches and then not wear it through fear the radiation exposure :(

Best Regards

Jamie.

I wouldn't worry about the radium. The concern was for the service personnel and the Faraday cage, case and movement together with the half life decay will mean that the radiation exposure will be insignificant. It may be possible that the watch left the RAF prior to 1963 or the dial simply did not have a T. These watches were tools and hands and dials would be removed for servicing and may not be put back on the same watch. The Mark XI is a great watch. I wear mine quite often. It keeps better time than my more recent IWCs.

That's reassuring to know that the radiation is not a risk. It seams like everyone here is advising me not to restore the dial, it might not be to everyones liking but at least I can say it has character. At this point I think I'm going to just stick with the ultrasonic clean and the service.
Thanks again.

Jamie,
I am sorry that I cannot see the images, so my comment is a general one.
Like everyone else I would say : do not change or restore the dial. In Schaffhausen, original dials are not anymore in stock since many years and a so called "replacement dial" will be applied, which is considerably different from the the original one. During the last decade collectors have learned to appreciate the not perfect original dial more than a brand new one.
About the Radium dials. Only dials that lack the luminous triangle at 12 o'clock can be Radium dials. Collectors call them : "white 12".
The likelihood to find such watch is extremely limited. The reason for that is that RAF already changed all these dials for Tritium ones during the early 1950ies.Most of the Tritium dials had an encircled T , but not all! Only those mk 11 watches which were not in active service and were left in a drawer may have a Radium dial. All others were sent to Herstmonceux for service every 12-18 months, so each Mk 11 could not escape this strict service. With respect, I do not share the opinion of Rave. Radium 226 has a half life time of 1600 years, meaning that only after 1600 years half of the radiation power has been eliminated. Even if a Radium dial does not glow in the dark does not mean that anything is wrong with the Radium. It is the other compound of the lume paint that is desintergrating : the zincsulfide compound is falling appart by the continuous bombing of its molecules by Radium. And it is the Zincsulfide that causes the greenish light when turned on by Radium. However, if you do not touch the dial and if you do not wear the Mk 11 continuously, you will not get more radiation per year as an air line pilot.
Regards,
Adrian,
(alwaysiwc).

Hi Adrian,

Thanks for the comprehensive reply which leads me to believe that the dial on mine is not a radium one, as it has a triangle on it. The T is however missing but as you say not all of them had the T. At least I don't have to worry about about the radiation.
It's good to know that trends have changed and that collectors have grown to appreciate such dials which are not perfect and are showing their age. Like you say if the watch is returned to Schaffhausen no doubt this dial would be changed for new, and this would change completely the watch I bought and that would be a shame. Thanks for your post which was an education in itself.
Much appreciated.

Hi Jamie
Your Mark 11 is from 1951 and originally had a 'white 12' dial like this one, but it was changed on or around 1952, to improve readability in poor lighting conditions. In 1963 Tritium replaced Radium for luminosity.
That dial/hands must remain "as is" IMHO.

I'd not seen this dial before, must be quite rare. At least I know now when the dial was exchanged. So your suggestion is to leave my dial and hands untouched.
Thanks for the feedback.

I believe that was not a suggestion, rather a requirement;)

Ah yes Ben, you'll be glad to know all this feedback has convinced to keep the dial and hands untouched. Other than a service and clean the watch will remain as is. She's a keeper in her rather weathered condition. The new tribute model could be the next purchase, just to balance the old and new. Better start saving those pennies again.

I realize you are new to the Forum. A number of our members who have responded to you are too modest to say this, so I will mention it for them.

Some of the responses you have received (all of which say leave the dial as is) are from collectors who are extremely knowledgeable and in fact are absolute experts with respect to vintage IWC's. If they all say to leave it as is, you can rest assured this is excellent advice from people who are not guessing. They know.

I do not know a lot about vintage IWC's, but will mention that in some other brands, notably Rolex and Panerai, such a dial is highly prized and greatly increases the value of the watch.

Thanks Dick. Good of you to say so, it's been invaluable to have all these people share with me their knowledge and advice. I was in two minds joining the forum as I'd had pretty much made my mind up when I acquired the watch I was going for a full dial restore / replacement. I'm glad I listened to my instinct which was telling to ask for some help. Now I'm really glad that I took the plunge and sought some guidance from the members who know so much better than me.
When I get the watch back I'd like to share some better quality photo's so people can see I've stuck to my word and left the watch in it's best original condition ( - the service and clean). My intention is to one day leave this watch to my son, so he also can get to enjoy it hopefully as much as I will do while I'm still kicking around.
Thanks again.

That was the original dials for all Mark 11 from 1948 and 1951 - collectors refer to it as the 'white 12." It is indeed very scarce.
I suspect your Mark 11 has a Radium dial, and is also very scarce. Replacing the dial/hands of your Mark 11 with new dial/hand would seriously devalue it.

Hi Clepsydra, Good to know mine has a rare dial. I'll be sure to leave the radium dial as is, promise.
Really excited to get watch back from it's service so I can wear and enjoy it.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.