IWC Military Pocket Watch Parts (cal. 972)

Last year I bought an auction lot containing German military watch parts (for my interest at the time this was mainly for a Blancpain Bundeswehr Fifty Fathoms watch head). I have started to go through the other parts the last few weeks, and have that almost all the items are also German military (e.g Tutima, IWC Ocean Bund, Heuer, etc).

Anyway, I have also a variety of parts for the IWC cal. 972, plus a box of assorted movement parts and hands. This leads me to ask two questions, and perhaps there is the expertise on this forums to help...

1) I have 5 complete balance assemblies that I guess are from the IWC cal. 972 but they are not marked. The only numbering is 5183 marked on the plastic cases. Is there a way I could identify these with certainty ? As there are 5, and I have sets of 5 of other cal. 972 parts, then it is my best guess that these are 972 also.

2) The box of mysterious parts contains some very large blued hands plus large pocket watch style onion crowns (minute hand 25mm, hour hand 18.5mm, second hand 11mm). They seem to be a great match to the hands of the old KM pocket (deck) watches mentioned in the archived thread below. But again this is only an idea, and I don't know enough about the movement to know whether the other parts support this theory. Can any experts here give their thoughts ?

And the link to the old thread...

IWC Deck Watches

I think my text perhaps wasn't as clear as I thought. This is not too surprising though, as none of it is really clear in my mind.

Everything I have in the lot seems to have strong links to the Kriegsmarine and/or Bundeswehr. There are spare parts for the Junghans Cal.88, Tutima signed Lemania 5100 movements, and so on. The IWC parts and this one box were the only bits that I hadn't identified. As many of the parts are in quantities of 4-5 they look like they were regular service parts. I thought that it seems unlikely that a normal watch maker would have carried so many identical parts for an obscure movement like the 972. So regarding the 972 parts, I was only really asking if the complete balances could be identified as 972 balances. Then would come the question, could the 972 parts be suitable service parts for a movement from the same family that could have had military use (i.e. they would work in a cal. 97 etc, but was the 97 ever used in military timepieces)?

Then separate to that is the box of parts. The hand lengths I have measured seem to be a good match to the deck watch in the link ( if I scale from the 57mm diameter quoted in the first post). That theory might be supported if all the loose parts are from the cal. 67, or if the onion crowns are right. I have no idea about this, so wondered if someone recognized the movement parts...

The 5301 Pocket watch used by the German Navy used a Cal. 972.

Greetings from Hamburg

Martin

Thanks Martin, that's great information. Using that I found this thread, so probably that solves part of the mystery.

5301 Cal. 972

Then I wonder how to check whether those balances are from the 972. And the box of parts, well I have found a nice thread to start some research on tonight.

Military IWC Pocket Watches

On the third page there is a great scan of a magazine article. I will take a good look after I manage to get my son to bed ! The small second hand may be the best clue, and seems to match that on picture 10, but I don't know if the dimensions are right. If it was, then it would indicate Cal. 67 parts. Are you able to look at the loose parts and state whether they are Cal. 67 ? Or do you know someone who might know ?

Hi,
I wonder if you would sell one balance assemblies for the IWC cal. 972
I have one nice preserved specimen of black military IWC watch cal.97 but without balance.
International code for the part that I missed is 721, but I believe that this is the one you have

Thanks
Best regards

I concur with Martin Dohrmann.
All WW II war Deck Watches used by the the Kriegsmarine (KM) and the post war Bund pocket watches used by the Bundesmarine had a cal. 67 movement , except the last one : cal. 9720.
Here is the information provided by the late IWC museum curator Jürgen King :
Stainless steel case with a metal dial , IWC logo.
The visible diameter is 41 mm.
On the back :
Propertynumber(NATO Stock number or "Versorgungsnummer") of the German Army : 6645-12-151-5866
IWC Ref. 5301
Caliber 9720 with Incablock shock absorber
17 Jewels.
18000 vibrations per hour.
Special wooden box with supply number ( Versorgungsnummer) 6645-12-124-9144 coined on the back.
Last delivery 1987, total number 47 pieces + 7 additional pieces.

I do not know whether there were differences between the civil cal 9720 and the military ones or if there were special testing programs. The watch was stored in the wooden box with a plexi glass cover in a room on board of the military ships. However, nobody was authorised to touch the watch other than the officer of duty, who had to wind the watch every morning at a fixed hour and after doing so he had to sign for it.
Kind regards,
Adrian,
(alwaysiwc).
P.S.The "onion" shaped crowns you show do not belong to the cal 9720 watch.

That is really interesting information Adrian... thank you for taking the time to write it all down. Regarding the parts in the second picture, I have spoken with some other experts and we are pretty sure they are from the large size cal. 67 deck watches (dial diameter 49mm) used by the Bundesmarine. From photographs I have seen the hands look right and the lengths seem correct, and I think the onion crowns are also a good match. Probably all the parts in the second picture are therefore cal. 67.

This is how the post war military Bund pocket watches were stored on the military ships. The wooden container was covered on the back side with green felt and on the front side with a removable plexiglass.
Kind regards,
Adrian,
(alwaysiwc).

And this is how IWC shipped the container plus watch from Schaffhausen to the Bund Navy. This means to me that IWC was responsible for the container as well.
For sure the manufacture of it was outsourced but the complete unit was sent from Schaffhausen, as the container just fitted in the white paper box, bearing the factory's address.
(alwaysiwc)

Hi Adrian. Is that your watch in the picture ? If it is, is it the large version with a dial approx. 49mm ? If it is, could I trouble you to measure the hand lengths as I have only been able to estimate so far from pictures. Thanks so much if you are able to help, David.

Hi everyone,

I'am looking for a second wheel for cal 97.

If you have it, please contact me.

Thank you very much

Regards,
Romain