IWC Presents the new Ingenieur Collection

Well, regarding sports watches I agree with IWC's directions: large and heavy watches (general Inge diameter was I think at 45 mm) give now place to normal size Inge's (40 and 42 mm, living place to larger models only as "special series" e. g. it is clear that the digital QP module happens to be so large that it cannot be put into a case smaller than 45 mm). The new Inge can also be used as a sports watch, both the waterresistance and (regarding the non-chrono) the antimagnetism allow this.
But regarding divers's watches IWC has the Aquatimer heritage which is not (yet) really used in the new direction: the AT chrono is still 44 mm (in reality bezel diameter is even 45.5 mm, not to mention the weight and 17 mm height!) and even the basic requirements are missing: both a quick-micro-adjust clasp for the bracelet (most of competing brands have this) and a folding clasp for the rubber strap (again a clear desadvantage). But keeping the new cal. 69xxx in mind (with day-date feature that it has) a new, 41-42 mm Aquatimer chrono with the day-date version of the cal. 69xxx would be very nice and very successful (dropping finally the thingy at 9). 120 m waterresistance for the Chrono is just enough (keeping down height, weight and production cost of crystal). Remember that the AT Chrono ref. 3719 was also 42 mm/13.4 mm with under 170 gr on bracelet and it was a huge success - I enjoy mine a lot. And the Pilot line (chrono and non-chrono) should also have finally a narrow count-up turning bezel (at least as an option), either a ceramic one looking like that of the Timezoner Chrono or an underglass bezel like that of the mentioned 3719 or the VC AT. I would be more than satisfied with a 40-41 mm Fliegerchrono with either kind of the mentioned bezel, the day-date cal. 69xxx, a dial design of the ref. 3706/3713 and a quick-micro-adjust bracelet clasp.
Just my two cents as always... :)
Regards,
Robert

The year of the boring ingenieur. Looks like hundreds of other lumps of metal cased watches available on the watch market. What a wasted exercise on design,IWC.

Interesting comments, from new collectors and old collectors.....I am an old collector and honestly I think that the only mistake is the name of these new watches. I don't understand why IWC call them the new Ingenieur collection...
On the other side IWC understood this, and the word " ingenieur" is not written on the dial...( soft the chrono sport....)
These presented, are new watches with their own personality that need of some time to be appreciate by the potential customers. What I can say is that it seems not a love at first sight....
Of course we must take in consideration the trade policy, so IWC must produce watches for several and different type of customers so it is right to produce watches for everybody, fan or not of the brand.

Call them Inge or not: sporting an in-house caliber through a see-through case back is absolutely welcome for me. At the same time an Inge should take higher loads of magnetism than something else. These two can be true at the same time in one way only: IWC should follow suit of some competing brands and achieve higher antimagnetism by research and thus use of alternative materials, mainly at the escapements thus a soft iron inner cage can be eliminated while "transparency" maintained.

The Ingenieur logo on the dial only appears in the Sport version, presumably because it does in fact have anti-magnetic properties. Using that logo only on such watches seems like a reasonable compromise.

I know how you feel, but I beg to differ.

I too have some mixed feelings, as I have always been a Gerald-Genta-Ingenieur fan, and own a few GG-inspired Ingenieurs. I am also sad to see the existing models being discontinued.

Before I comment further on my view regarding the new ingenieur series, let me share briefly my thoughts on the new Da Vinci. Granted the new Da Vinci series do not have the exotic-looking tonneau-shaped case, which are by the way, rather complicated and difficult to manufacture. Just for the record, despite IWC's earlier effort to make such a marvelous case, I think the series were not all that popular, and were not in high demand by consumers. People can argue all day long that the old Da Vinci looks so much better than the "boring" round-shaped watches such as the Portofino and the new Da Vinci. Nonetheless, the newer, round-shaped watches, are actually what many people willing to pay for with their money.

Also, there are a few pleasant surprises with the new Da Vinci. New movements aside, look at the applied numerals and the rotating lugs. These are not commonly found in other series of IWC. These, in my mind, still make the Da Vinci somewhat unique.

Now onto the new Ingenieur series. I think after many years of revising the Genta-inspired design, the outgoing Ingenieur series of watches no longer provide anyone with any surprises. IWC moved from a GG-inspired Ingenieur without crown-guard (3227) to one with it (3236). Then from plain gold, steel and titanium (read: GST) to exotic materials like ceramic and carbon fiber. IWC moved from bezel with a few holes to a few vulcanized bolt-heads. They added almost every complications (with the exception of minute repeater) to the ingenieurs series over the years, including digital-date perpetual calendar, dual-time, fly-back chronograph and even constant-force tourbillon. Grew from 42/44mm to 46mm. Frankly speaking, the more IWC puts in, the more "stale" and "bland" the ingenieur series start to become. I think the time for IWC to attempt to grab lowend market from Audemars Piguet Royal Oak and Hublot Big Bang is almost over.

one series of the ingenieur seems manage to sell rather well in the past. It ironically was not the GG-inspired ingenieurs. Instead, it was the vintage ingenieurs (3233). I think it is actually a bit wise after releasing GG-inspired ingenieurs for so long, IWC actually returns to its roots to come up with a redesign of the vintage ingenieur.

Also, in my opinion, the most well-received and purchased sports watch from IWC was neither the GG-inspired ingenieur nor the aquatimer. It was their precedessor, the GST series. For years fans from all over the world have been asking IWC to consider re-releasing a new GST series.

Look at the latest ingenieurs. Look at the one with metal bracelet. What does it resemble? I see signs and hints of the GST. I think IWC is on the edge of bringing the "GST" concept back.

Who knows if this new series of ingenieurs will succeed? it is still too early to tell. I think upcoming additions to the ones that are already announced will be even more interesting. (not that I know what is already in the sleeves of IWC's designers, namely Mr. Knoop's, but I think IWC has a few years to develop the new ingenieurs and make them more interesting/appealing).

Besides, if people are already feeling nostalgic about the outgoing Ingenieur series, I think there are plenty of existing stocks out there for fans to grab before they are sold out. Who knows, after a few years, when people are getting so used to the new ingenieur series, perhaps IWC could come up with a few "tribute to Gerald Genta" limited editions for the nostalgic fans.

To me, I'm glad that I have a few GG-inspired ingenieurs. I may get a few more if money and situation allows me to do so. I will also eagerly anticipate seeing the latest ingenieurs, and seeing what else to come down the road.

From my point of view, this is a soft launch. A refresh of one of the IWC brand families, traditionally, would have generated all the fanfare of a SIHH launch. This launch has been slipped in quietly and lacks the confidence of a winning sales strategy. Some dials refer to Ingenieur and others don't. I feel totally underwhelmed.

IWC should re-release the Aquatimer Chrono ref. 371928 from 2004 with the following updates:
- keep the bezel turning mechanism, the 42 mm bezel diameter and 120 m WR (case height!)
- put the day-date version of the new caliber 69xxx in it
- enhance dial, hands and bezel luminosity
- add a quick-micro-adjust double-pusher clasp to the steel bracelet
- add a folding clasp to the rubber strap
and I'm done... (until this I enjoy my 371928 as my daily beater.)
(IWC already has all of the above mentioned things within their factory so producing this is purely a matter of decision.)
Best,
Robert

I really don't like where IWC is going with this design. I can't even recognize the brand anymore. Nothing to be excited about anymore.

One fact is that the Ingenieur Collection was enlarged and enriched very well and worked over in the last years. But it wasn't a big seller to say it with respect. I know some IWC ADs that even didn't buy any of them after a while just because they didn't sell.
So now IWC decided to work it over and relaunch. I wonder if this bunch of new watches will resolve the problem or make it even bigger. I don't see watches that carry IWC DNA and make me really want to buy. Of course that's just personal taste. Time will tell if IWC is on the right track here.

No pellaton winding, no soft Iron innercase, no striking lightning bolt.
What's left.?

IMHO the Mk. XII. HAS a soft iron inner case.

But returning to the new Ingies: first of all there is still a controversy on IWC.com: description shows 36 jewels while scan shows 33 jewels... they'd be more careful with this and correct it quickly.
The other thing is (new maybe only to me): the first limited edition was specified as WR 6 atm while the new, unlimited watches have a 12 atm WR on their case back and in the description. Dunno if it's true or a misprint again - buyers of the LE have the disadvantage if not a misprint only.

I fully agree with you Tilo. I talked to a few AD`s as well and they confirmed it. Future will tell more about the new Ing. strategy.
Personally, as I don't have an Ing. so far, will sooner or later get one from the "old" one.
Cheers Chris

Actually this new collection is pretty far away from the perceived image of the brand, and has almost nothing to offer, especially if compared to other brands.
Maybe it is something interesting for far east customers, that seems to be the new market, but for sure it will not fix any problem in selling Ingenieur collection timepieces.
What makes me angry is that I was almost ready for the Ingenieur Racer. Now, according to my AD, they not only do not sell the old ingenieur anymore, but they also are trying to recall them from the AD chain.
Something really sad.

Well put. 100% agree. All this new launch does for me is make me even happier about my 3239.

As for the comments about "entry level" watches, please keep in mind that "entry level" here still refers to a watch for some 4 000 euro. Nobody spends that money casually. First time buyers of a watch in this price range definitely want to feel they're buying something special. And this is not even close to it.

Well, for us conservative, I'm happy to see there is actually one real Ingenieur among the others in the new Ingenieur collection: IW380901.

Also that's probably why IW380901 is the only new Ingenieur-reference bearing the well-known logo on the dial.

/Anders

Well, I'm not a collector like most of you, I just like IWC's designs, and have a Portuguese Chrono and a Portofino, both "entry level watches." As T_G points out, and "entry level" IWC is not cheap and is nothing to sneeze at.

I was never a fan of the Genta designs, but that is obviously a matter of personal taste. I do like the classic 666.

I think the new automatic is a nice enough watch, but it is only distantly related (visually) to the 666. From my point of view, it is really competing in the same space at the Portofino automatic. If it had been released with the new movement it would have been much more interesting.

I actually like the chronograph with the 69000 movement. I'm not going to sell my 3714 and buy one (I like the 3714 much more) but it is an attractive watch and an important one, as it indicates in what price range the watches with the new movements will be.

So, as someone who doesn't have a horse in this race, I think the automatic is nice enough and an alternative for people who might buy the Porto but would rather have stick indices, and the Chrono is just a nice looking watch. If I were looking for a new chrono in this range, and I placed a premium on a manufacturer's movement, I would have no issue with it.

I also think that when a familiar line is revamped, the first reactions are generally negative. This was the reaction to the Mark XVIII - "everybody" "hated" the "incorrectly" placed date window, but once they got used to it, they stopped complaining. It's getting generally good reviews now on the various forums, especially the Petit Prince version.

As far as straying too far from the original Ingenieur purpose, I think that is a red herring. The people who need anti-mag and so on at their workplace are probably wearing G-Shocks anyway. High-end mechanical watches (which includes EVERYTHING from IWC; some is just higher-high-end) long ago became a statement rather than a necessity.

It's similar with electric guitars. Guitarists are horribly conservative when it comes to gear. If it doesn't look something like a Telecaster, Stratocaster, Les Paul, or ES-335, it's a tough sell.

just my 2 euro-cents worth

steven

Like others have commented, I feel somewhat disappointed with the new Ingenieur models. For a watch with such a rich heritage to draw on, the new designs come across as somewhat bland and unrelated to the groundbreaking designs that have made the Ingenieur such a favourite amongst collectors.

When I think of the Ingenieur I think of lightening bolts, anti-magnetism, anti-shock, in-house movements, dial detail and engineering precision amongst other things. The new base model, which should always represent the purist incarnation of a model range doesn't appear to have any of that. I might forgive this if the new designs were radical or revolutionary, as the Genta designs were, but they aren't (IMHO).

Maybe someone can help explain this new chapter, maybe I'm out of touch, but is this really what the market wants?

Styling aside, which is okay i think, the New Ingenieur does go back to the design roots of the ref 666 i think. What was also needed was a smaller size AND a thinner watch, 10mm is what the market likes for every day watches. So thats a good thing.
But in quality it loses to the basic models from Rolex and omega in power reserve and anti magnetic properties, and in movement. And thats not a good thing because what makes it IWC then, or special ?
Look at the new 2017 autavia chrono, in house , 80 hrs of reserve, column wheel and vertical clutch, heritage...in the same price range all though very different watch.
If IWC doesnt match this type of offerings it doesnt proof its brand value, and it will lose to brands less expensive as well as more expensive. Eaten from both sides.
Also Richmont group reported bying back unsold AD inventory in acces of 200 mill SFR.... thats staggering. How much warning do you need to come up with excellent new watches. Such as the Pilot line and the Da Vinci line recently, very good offerings i think, apart from lacking the in house in the basic Pilot. But the market doesnt care so much it seems as it received praise in general, also for the flatness of the case. Apart from the position of the date window.

But for 2 years or so now i hear about the new in house movements, cal 42000 3 hander for entry level watches, that would surely have added IWC dna and quality to the new ingenieur, and maybe even set it apart more than it does now. Why didnt IWC use that movement ???
Now i find it very hard to see what makes this a special watch.

But i am very happy with my Portugieser and Aquatimer ..!!

I totally agree with you. I did come close to the brand driven by the name, personal reason etc...
I was happy to start from their entry level (even if I hate this definition) proposal, pilot chrono in my case. I'm very happy with this and I would do it again any time, I love my watch and I do no actually care if inside there is an ETA or a basic IWC movement trying to mimic ETA.
After this I got closer to watch world and the brand, I was ready for the "jump", to join the history, the technicality, the beauty, the captivation of the brand watches. I'm an Engineer, so... :-)
And then this step, a very bad one in the stormy weather of today watchmaking industry.
But watch world is not only IWC, luckily some other brand like Omega offer very high quality watches, with very high technical solutions level (looking at Planet Ocean), at a price wich is very much attractive.
That's why it will be most likely my next choice.
I know I will be able to find Ingenieurs in the market for the next coming years, but buying from the grey market is something that I'm not happy with (especially above 7/8.000€) and, which is more important for me, are not the current image of the brand Ingenieurs line, not to say to the comapny.
I just only hope that this revamping fever will not get in contact with the Aquatimer...

I did not like the new Ingenieur; nor the Da Vinci.

I love and respect the IWC but the new designs are quite far behind.

Entry level is the new quartz and IWC has nothing to do with it!

Keep my fingers crossed for the 150th anniversary. Let's not kill it this time!

With so much excess inventory, you have to wonder whether the design change is intended to draw a line between what ADs will be selling in their shops and what may ultimately end up sold via grey market dealers. The massive buybacks from ADs of previous generation watches, including Ingenieurs, makes even more sense in this context; as Richemont will have an opportunity to mitigate their losses related to the buybacks by selling these "older models" gradually via the grey market.

Sorry IWC - but these new watches are just "some watches" - but I don't think they have anything to do with what we know as "Ingenieur" :(

I also think that this move (and others lately) will damage the brand in the long term - IWC did always stand for high technology with a bit of understatement.
When I look at the new collections I do think that has turned into opposite..

Hopping for better times for "old IWC Fans"!

regards
thomas