IWC Seeland Caliber 22?

hello everyone,

I'm looking for information about this watch. I received it in a wooden box, although I am not sure if the box belongs to the watch, as there are no markings on it. 

I posted this on a dutch watch forum, where i was directed here. Some info about the watch:

It has the IWC logo on the dial plate, together with a smaller dial plate. The dials are blue.

The back has a nice pattern, with a banner/shield. I presume now that this might be to engrave initials?

After opening the first "lid" (I do not know what to call this, but the opening lids on the back of the watch), "K 14" and "93" marks are present. Furthermore, there is a squirrel mark, which I have been told is Swiss. 

After opening the second "lid", the mechanism is exposed. There are a number of marks here:

-inside the lid: "metal 93" and "J.D." aswell as initials and a date "S.K. 15.11.1919" which I've been told has been added later.

-on the mechanism: A nice IWC Logo in a wave pattern, and what I presume is the serial number: "H 3616".

I was told that this might be an IWC Seeland Caliber 22, and after looking at pictures I think this is right (I am not knowledgable of watches at all). What I do not know however, is what the "H" in the serial number means.

I wonder the following:

-Is this watch a Seeland Caliber 22?

-What does the serial mean and how old is this watch?

Thank you in advance,

Wouter

Could you please provide a high res pic of the H 3616 marking you deem to be the movement number?

Regards

Th. Koenig

I hope this is a better picture

Wouter

Dear Wouter

What you have is in the old denomination a Cal. 22. But research a few years ago resulted in the conclusion that the Cal. 22 (Lepine) and 23 (Savonette) are nothing more than variants of the Cal. 20 (Lepine) und 21 (Savonette) in technical terms and in the notion of F.F. Seeland, who launched these calibres. So in the current denomination it is a Cal. 20 H in the highest quality, i.e. "H". The qualitiy letter were the same as with Jones calibres, however other than on Jones movements the quality letter was not engraved on the movement with the Seeland 3/4 plates.

What you deem to be a leading "H" in front of the four digit movement number in fact is the figure "4" enhancing the movement number from 4 to five digits forming the movement number 43,616. That fits perfect in the range of the IWC Seeland 3/4-plates calibres in general and of a calibre 20H in partikular, while the four digit "3,616" would have indicated a movement number assigned to the movement by a retailer or simply forgery. 

A "twin" of your movement is depicted in EHRISMANN-KÖNIG-LUCHETTI-MATHE-MYERS, The International Watch Co. from 1875 to 1890, Fig 7D. The book provides some more info on the Cal. 18-21 (previously 18 to 23).

Regards

Th. Koenig

Thank you for the detailed answer! I am quite exited about this watch, and I suspect it has been in my family since it was first bought. I will be looking into my family archives, to hopefully identify who's initials are carved in.

best regards,

Wouter

Dear Wouter,

I guess you are Dutch or from Belgium, given your first name.

I want to provide little more information as I believe that you do not already have the IWC book, T. Koenig is referring to and of which he is a co-author. The information below is derived from that book.

One of your questions is : how old is my watch.

It was made between 1876-1882, by Frederick F. Seeland ( or his successor) who was after F. A Jones the director from 1877-1879.

Seeland ceased the Jones calibres as they were too expensive and difficult to sell in a declining market, but he completed the huge stock of unfinished Jones movements.

Other than Jones , Seeland was not a designer or watch but rather a market person, who had successfully introduced the American Waltham brand in Europe, working from  London. He understood that cheaper watches nearly always in silver cases could  be competitive.

Therefore he used calibres which were alike Waltham full plate watches or three quarter plate watches as devloped in Great Britain.

Yours is a three quarter plate.

Of that calibre 20H about 2000 examples were made but you may assume that few have remained although your Seeland is the most encountered Seeland calibre.

You mention a written inscription dated in 1919 in one of the lids. That was inscribed by a watchmaker who repaired or serviced the watch.

In the early days of IWC ( from1872 onwards) there was only 1 importer for IWC in Holland.

That was E.D Elias., Oude Turfmarkt , Amsterdam. If the watch is in your family from the start, your watch has been imported by him.

Regards,

Adrian,

(alwaysiwc).

Interesting!

You were correct to assume I do not own the book. I have not yet been able to go through our archives yet, I did however find another date inside (1899), which is interesting. Your theory/explanation about a watchmaker carving the date(s) is certainly interesting as well, I had not considered this. I admit the production date was a bit shocking to me, since I had not expected the watch to be this old. Sadly it does not run, although I think it did (shortly) when I wound it up some years ago. I am not planning on selling this watch, but I have been wondering if it has much monetary value? If it is significant enough, I might consider getting it repaired.

best regards,

Wouter

Dear Wouter,

Because Seeland watches had to be cheap, the quality was not as good as the Jones calibres.

Many had only 9 jewels but your is an exception, it has probably 15 jewels, as good as the best Jones movements.

If running, I would estimate your watch at about 1000 euro, but for that amount IWC Schaffhausen will not repair and service it.

My advice is to look for a local watchmaker and ask him about the repair and cost.

It may be that there is no serious damage and do not forget that it is over 150 years old.

Regards,

Adrian

(alwaysiwc).