My first Pocket Watch: civilian Cal. 67 (and a question)

Hi Forum Friends,

During the recent Collectors' Meeting in Schaffhausen, I decided it was time to find my first pocket watch. Having diner with a number of the best vintage pocket watch experts, I gave them my 'wishlist': white metal, blue hands, portuguese type dial, mint condition.
It then only took them a few minutes to agree that I 'needed' a Cal.67 in steel: nicely decorated movement, sturdy and not too rare. Within a day a perfect example was already found and offered to me, which I decided to buy:
- Cal. 67 in stainless steel
- blued hands
- lovely dial
- in like-new condition. Rumor has it the watch spent more than a few decades in a drawer....

Here are the first quick shots, followed by a question for you experts:

The very knowledgeable and reputable seller told me that this Cal. 67 is a 'civilian' version of the Bund/KM Cal.67's. In my eyes it is 100% similar to the following piece, except for the 'KM' on the dial (picture courtesy of Hans Goerter):

I read a lot about KM/Bund pw's in the archives, but still my simple amateur question is: what is there to tell about 'civilian' Cal.67's? Or is this just a regular production run from the years 1933-1958 when the Cal.67 was made or is there more to it?

I love it anyway, but I'd appreciate your expert opinions and/or suggestions where I can find more about this.

Kind regards,

Bob

PS: apologies I didn't open the watch yet so can't tell the serial numbers

Congrats on that IWC icon, Bob.

As I know, the civ. - and mil. versions are similar.

Only the dials are different and many mil. watches have engravings on the case back.

It schould contain a cal. like this :-)

Regards

HEBE

thanks Heiko, love your 'collage' pictures!!

Regards,

Bob

Love that pocket watch, and Bob, your taste is matching with mine. I can imagine to buy my first pocketwatch sooner or later as well.

Congrats to this nice find.

Cheers Chris

Hi Bob,
a very nice example you have added to your Collection. Enjoy - if I obtain more info about the history I will let you know.
Greetings from Hamburg
Martin

thanks Martin, that's appreciated a lot!

Regards,

Bob

Hi Bob,

Congratulations on your first pocket watch, and an excellent one at that.

Although I could be wrong, I've always considered these watches as Calibre 67s, period. Most were made this way and a few just had the dials to also have K.M.. I never considered this as a "civilian" version of a "special" military watch, although both are very nice watches. But if there is any contrary documentation, I'd like the learn more.

A very beautiful pocket watch in every respect. Congratulations, Bob.

Congratulations Bob, on a beautiful "first!"

Hi Michael, thanks and I like your reasoning, Sounds realistic and logical to me!

Best regards,

Bob

Very nice Bob, congrats on an excellent choice. You know I wouldn't mind one of those at some point myself :-)

Nice Bob. Congrats. Looks pretty damn fine.

Ok, so I opened the case and with 'Date Your IWC' I could easily date the watch:
"The movement is a LÈp. calibre 67, dating from the year 1938.
The case was most probably produced resp. delivered around 1940".

I had to really search for the movement number, but then remembered an interesting fact Roberto posted back in 2009: ""The serial number on the movement is not inscribed close to the balance but next to the barrel. This is due to the fact that, during 1938-1940, serial numbers changed from 6 to 7 digits, there’s need for more room and, as numbers get bigger, there’s no more space beside the barrel. So, after that period, the serial number changes place back nearby the balance bridge. My Cal. 67 has s.n. inscribed close to the barrel, this means it was built before 1940."
And indeed, that was the case and in line with the year my Cal.67 was produced.

Regards,

Bob

What a gorgeous pocket watch Bob, congratulations.

Jonathan

Beautiful...just plain beautiful. Well done Bob, a purchase you will never regret!

Jimmy

Beautiful watch and looks in almost pristine condition!
Especially I like those blued hands!

Enjoy

Thanks Jimmy, I certainly won't regret it!

Hello,

I am interested in purchasing a similar pocket watch with CAL. 67 - what is a fair price for one that is in good condition please? Just don't want to get ripped off and I am completely new to pocket watches.

The movement looks beautifully finished!

Thanks
Anuj

Hi Bob,
I agree with MF that pw cal. 67 was already existing as the civil version. The military version KM was a a successor of the civil version with practically few alterations on dial and case back to emphasise that the marked versions were military property. Less known is the following information written in Militäruhren, the book of Konrad Knirim. The need of the German forces for watches had increased during WW II to such extend that the Swiss and German watch manufacturers, among them IWC, could not deliver the requested amount. Then the army confiscated civil cal 67 as they were equal in quality! They were requisitioned from civilian shops and retailers to serve in the army. Important is that these from origen civil pw's were not enlisted by IWC as delivered to Gerl and Schipper in Cologne. That were the wholesalers, who got the watches from IWC and thereafter they were passed on to the Kriegsmarine. The cal. 67's with a civil origen are thus by definition classified as civil, because they had been sold as civil pw's originally.
Confusion may arise when such watch is found by a collector and when it turns out that the case numbers are not present in the IWC archives as belonging to the military series. However, such civil confiscated watches had often another stamp on the case back : Kl. III instead of Kl. II ( Class III respectively Class II). It is unknown how many are around. The trust of the German Navy after WW II was so great that they continued to have cal. 67 on their ships untill the 1970's. Hajo Thissen, IWC forum member, served on such ship in the 1970's and remembers the use of it. Only the last Observation watch was a Cal.97
Kind regards,
Adrian,
(alwaysiwc).