• Connoisseur
    1 Feb 2010, 1:20 a.m.

    Shown here are the last two watches I’ve bought. Please excuse the fact that one is not an IWC –I’m showing it to compare it to the IWC and to make several points about design, function, and value.

    The watch on the left is a Swatch, but not an ordinary one. It is the first automatic chronograph watch produced by Swatch. The movement basically is in-house although it is an ETA Caliber C01.211 that has been used by Tissot The case is an especially sturdy black plastic, and the dial is contemporary. To me the best attributes in that the watch is that is a supreme engineering achievement given its under 400 USD price point. It’s also a useful watch, as a “beater”.

    On the right is an IWC, which of course in the Portofino Vintage Collection moonphase in platinum. Its retail price is more than one hundred times that of the Swatch. Of course, there are huge differences between the two, starting with platinum versus plastic.

    Both watches, at least to me, look nice., Both watches keep time, although my IWC is marginally more accurate. The Swatch, being a chronograph , has more functions and is more complicated. There’s a small porthole in the back where one can see part of the movement –it’s not exactly finished with any finesse. But it works.

    To me, the Swatch is only a sports watch. With its black plastic case, looking remarkably like ceramic, it is inherently sporty. The chronograph is primarily a sports function –most used for time action-- although of course there are “dressier” models and other uses. I bought it as a “beater”, although even my beaters have to have, at least for me, something special. The first automatic chrono from Swatch so qualifies.

    What I dislike most about the Swatch is that it stands for nothing, aside from Swatch itself. Its dial, while pretty, is a me-too dial. The cut-out hands, the sub-dials surrounded by metallic rings, the layers and red accent -- it's what everyone is doing now. It’s soooo 2010. Pretty but derivative. And it represents nothing.

    On the other hand, the Portofino is a classic, and stands for something. It is not, in my opinion, just a pretty or a useful watch or even valued becaused of the metal.. Its clean dial is based on pocket watch dials –sure, and one can claim that’s “derivative” as well, but it is something classic. But to my thinking, this watch represents the pocket watch tradition. It is about the value of craft. This watch represents IWC’s heritage and to me it stands for something. It has withstood the test of time.

    There is a difference is materials and craftsmanship, of course, but to me the Portofino also stands, and will continue to stand, for something meaningful. To my thinking, the value of all mechanical watches is what they represent. They are essentially anachronisms, and I believe that there real value is as symbols. The finer craft may produce a longer wear, but the real value of craft is for crafts’ own sake. The platinum case may be slightly sturdier than the plastic, but the real value is for what the precious metal represents. And the watch itself has value, I would contend, as a symbol. To my thinking, I believe that fine mechanical watches should stand for their tradition and represent that in every way.

    The Portofino has value to me because it stands for something. The Swatch keeps time and looks trendy. I like it, and consider a black watch with a me-too dial to be fine as a beater watch, I’ve bought both, but I believe that there’s a huge difference, and it’s all about what they represent. It’s about more than price, and for me it’s a more than a one hundred-fold difference. It's about real value.

    Regards,
    Michael

     http://www.iwcforum.com/Swatch-Portofino.jpg

  • Master
    1 Feb 2010, 1:20 p.m.

    I would never buy the Swatch

    I cannot believe that this watch could be good quality. If it would, I really would feel foolish buying a watch like my titanium Ingenieur, or even feel annoyed towards the higher end watch industry for charging prices that would be far too high. I think the Swatch looks cheap, not well finished. I would regret this buy, even for $ 400. I considered buying a Tissot Touch about two years ago, but in the end I couldn't connect to it, so I let it go, although a forum member (the German forum) assured me the functions were in a very good working order, and very handy for a mountain hike.

    I wouldn't be able to connect to the platinum Portofino either. This has nothing to do with its superb beauty and presence. But the difference in price between the gold version and the platinum version is too high, when compared to other watches that were made by IWC, or are made by other brands, that are available in both metals. I would feel that my leg was pulled, so I wouldn't be able to wear this watch and keep my self respect.

    I must say that the last 3 IWC watches I bought, the steel VC Portuguese, the rose gold VC Portuguese and the steel VC Pilot's watch represent the values Michael is talking about the best to me. They are really high quality in every respect, they look fantastic, representing the brand and the beauty of the past that is eternal, and they are reasonably affordable. For me, this is IWC at its best.

    Kind regards,
    Paul, wearing steel VC Pilot's watch

  • Connoisseur
    2 Feb 2010, 6:10 a.m.

    There's something else too...

    One is dedicated to "masse market", compare to the "niche market" of the other. This would call to a less "emotional value" fot the first one. And it's ok this way. But, the swatch will eventually fall in "disgrace" because of that emotionless side. On the other hand, I think the portofino will always find its way to your wrist. And that, no matter of their pecunial value, but because what they mean as craft value.

    By the way, this is your second very good thread in two days. More "technical" and "meaningful". And your Portofino is great and diserves a large case, by its roots. This makes sense for me.

    Regards,
    Jean

  • Apprentice
    2 Feb 2010, 1:15 a.m.

    Philippe Stern, head of Patek Philippe, bought one

    ....several years ago, to go skiing. He told me this in person, and explained that he didn't want to use a valuable Patek for such activities.

    I guess he doesn't know much about watches or values, at least by your standards.

    Regards,
    Michael

  • Master
    1 Feb 2010, 12:55 p.m.

    Watches and skiing

    In the old days I used my Omega Seamaster De Ville when skiing, and it was great. I would use my titanium Ingenieur if I would go out for a ski now. I certainly wouldn't risk a Patek Philippe either, it might be too delicate, but why wouldn't I use an IWC for an activity for which the watch more or less was meant? I think even Mr. Kern and Mr. Stern would agree on this.

    Kind regards,
    Paul, wearing steel VC Pilot's watch

  • Master
    2 Feb 2010, 9:20 a.m.

    The only thing I may have in common with >>>>

    Philippe Stern is a Swatch for skiing. I too use a Swatch Snowpass model to ski, but I also have an IWC on the other wrist. The Ski Ticket office downloads a weeks ski pass purchase onto the Swatch and when you go through each gate you just swipe your arm and the gate opens to let you into the line. This one too will give you a altitude reading, a somewhat useless function.

    The watch I show to others on rides up the mountain are clearly of another dimension altogether....my Inge or AT 2000.

    Bill

    i95.photobucket.com/albums/l156/wbarker75/Zermatt%202010/L1010452.jpg

  • Master
    1 Feb 2010, 10:05 p.m.

    My last purchase was a Swatch

    A quartz chronograph as my farm watch from the Swatch discount store - Australian $ 102.50 and guaranteed for two years. I've tried Citizen and Seiko dive watches but inevitably a sudden shock breaks something. They generally last about two years. The IWC GST chronograph has been on my wrist as has the Ingenieur on occasions but given what I put watches through it is not something I would care to do on a regular basis.

    There is a time and place for every watch.

    Cheers from the cellar

  • Master
    1 Feb 2010, 8:20 p.m.

    A "beater"?

    I certainly understand your argument, when you need a watch while being busy on a very physical job. Then arguments like style and inner value are of no use whatsoever. Is that what a "beater" is, a watch that can be beaten, must take punishment without you wanting to regret it?

    Kind regards,
    Paul, wearing steel VC Pilot's watch

  • Apprentice
    2 Feb 2010, 3 a.m.

    This post is hidden. You cannot not see its contents.

    Hidden by on 8 Nov 2018, 3:55 p.m..

  • Connoisseur
    1 Feb 2010, 2:20 p.m.

    I own a similar combo

    a) A mechanical, skeleton Swatch with a date complication
    b) A VC Portofino SS

    To me, the Swatch represents a lot of nostalgia: I was a teenager when Swatch penetrated the long time Japanese rule of the wristwatch market.
    All of us kids got the - at least to most teenagers - flashy, fun, fashionable and not too expensive plastic quartz Swatches. We swapped them, talked about them, used them, ruined them and got new ones. Add to that, the general teenage life, and you may well understand why it represents a nostalgic period of my life (I don't think I want to relive it again, though!).

    Later in life, I discovered the noble mechanical watches with history, craft, precious metals, no battery, and a heavy price tag.

    To me, my mechanical Swatch combines nostalgia with my admiration for 'old school' Swiss horlogerie.

    My Portofino represents something else to me, not because of the movement, its beauty, or something other watch related, but purely because it was a gift to myself, when something special happened in my life. But of course, I choose the VC Portofino because I found it worthy of this special, private function. A Swatch would never have done the job :)

  • Master
    2 Feb 2010, 12:30 a.m.

    Michael this must be your most interesting post >

    ever!

    While I do not own a Swatch, I do have a Casio solar/global radio control does everything watch my best friend has named the "detonator". I have found it to be the best answer to the Reiseuhr concept. As each time zone may be individually set.

    i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee278/RWK29/Screen03.jpg

  • Master
    1 Feb 2010, 7:05 p.m.

    That plastic watch is working for the whole>

    movement/market since it helps young generations to approach the world of mechanical horology at a low cost. The watch will go their passion will stay.

    btw, I never liked lemania 5100, the only competitor to 7750 but in this version (plastic, plastic, plastic!) is a sort of reinvention.

    Portofino, another category, for man with class.

    Regards,

    roberto

  • Connoisseur
    2 Feb 2010, 12:45 a.m.

    thanks, but I guess...

    ...my comments about dial design might have been too subtle.

    Regards,
    Michael

  • Master
    1 Feb 2010, 11:50 a.m.

    You were perhaps harkening back...

    to a recent post speaking to the inherit sportiness and contemporary design of a 2010 novelty...as compared to LE watch in the same family? I thought it was a good follow-up to your point if I discerned it correctly.

    Best regards,
    Jim

  • Connoisseur
    2 Feb 2010, 7:25 a.m.

    It is easier to tell the time on the IWC...nt

  • Master
    1 Feb 2010, 11:20 p.m.

    It is always about value Michael

    you are right. Consider the Swatch being given to you by someone you love or a family member, no matter what the Portofino stands for which is again pretty much about values, it would never be the same as the Swatch no matter the price tag.
    Again, and you are right Michael, value is something different than price is.

    Argiris

  • Connoisseur
    1 Feb 2010, 9:50 p.m.

    Agreed; Oscar Wilde, in 1892, wrote...

    that "a cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing".

    Regards,
    Michael

  • Master
    2 Feb 2010, 4:40 a.m.

    Even a "beater" has been selected over other

    .. watches so there is something in the design or the dial the owner likes. Like any other watch it is not a random purchase.

    I always feel some regret when the "beater" gets damaged it is just that it doesn't hurt as much as having something else damaged.

    Cheers from the cellar

  • Master
    1 Feb 2010, 11:10 a.m.

    And I thought you would have got this one ...

    Cheers from the cellar

    www.gregsteer.net/Watches/Swatch_24_hour_dial.jpg