New acquisition Ingenieur 666AD with gilt dial

I've been after an ingenieur for a long long time.
Not only did my dream black dialed 666 come up but near new old stock, original papers that fully match up with case and movement. Now a bonus it has a gilt dial and hands now I'm presuming this must have been a special or custom order.
I've seen a couple of late 50's model but this is the first 60's model.

Purchased in Vienna in 1963 and she has led a very sheltered life as she is still razor sharp with all original finish.

I'd love to find out a bit more regarding this dial option and hopefully find some other similar models.

Enjoy the pictures.

Baden

Congratulations Baden. I'm glad that you are happy with your new acquisition.

I could be wrong, of course, but I suspect that it may be a replacement dial. I say that for two reasons. First, the date wheel is white, and I maintain my long-standing position on the issue, which is that it was typical for black dial 666 Ingenieurs to leave the factory with (matching) dark date wheels.

Secondly, though the photos are not of sufficient quality to make a fine judgement, it appears to me that the dots of lume are of a later (color) type that I do not associate with an old, original black dial.

It is certainly true that the gilt is uncommon, and perhaps your speculation about a special order is true. But I have some doubts.

In any case, I hope that you enjoy it for years to come.

Regards,

Tony C.

Hi Tony
I too questioned a few things about this watch before buying it, there's that saying if it's too good to be true question it.
After questioning it I do believe the dial to be original.

The reasons are as follows.

1. The dial is marked Swiss and not T Swiss T this means the dial would have had to been replaced very early in its life or IWC carried old stocks of early dials. But randomly putting a gilt dial on?

2. the hands are gilt and match the patina of the indices perfectly also the lume colour are both a perfect match. If at a later date in its life it had a replacement dial I would presume it would have been easier to keep ss hands and go with a standard ss and black dial.
   The patina on the lume and hands is darker but this could also be because of storage especially in low light.
   I think it's a very random combination to be chosen from a service in the days without the Internet etc

3. The gilt is the older style of gilt that I am used to seeing on early watches by Rolex with that speckled texture as opposed to the smoother slightly raised gilt seen on later watches from the early 70s.
   I find earlier gilt writing has a more softer hue than the later gilt work which has a more yellow appearance.

4. There is only one lume dot on the 12 o clock position after the early sixties it seamed that the two dots at 12 became one of the main stays in the ingenieur line this got me at first but with a lot of research I found the one dot more prevalent in the models from the late 50's early 60s.

5. The watch condition is nearly nos with no apparent refinishing of the case etc the movement is spotless and bright and the guarantee paper has been perfectly looked after which says this watch was very very treasured and loved.
   I cannot see why the owner would then decide to replace or have the need to replace the dial? Especially putting a gilt dial and hands when it would be so much easier to go for the straight black and ss combination.
   I would presume that the original owner would have chosen this option when the initial purchase was made in 1963.

6. Lastly I suppose it's my dream outcome that he was short sighted and colour blind like my self and ordered a white date wheel tbh I can't stand black or dark date wheels as my eyesight isn't the best.
   I know of other black dialed ingenieur with white date wheels and it is noted on other Web sites and data bases that this could be a correct combination.
   Worse case senario is IWC did change this at a later date because they ran out of black date wheels?
   I can find no conclusive proof either way and I'm a glass half full kind of guy so I'm going to pray for the short sighted colour blind scientist who worked in lower light conditions and needed to know the date at a seconds glance to file his latest research about the effects of magnetisation.

This was a specialist watch and like my grandfather who was a electronics engineer working on early computers and telecommunications he was obsessive about making the right choices. His attention to detail was incredible it took him ages to research what shoes to by so much so he had to have them made because he wanted stylish brogres in chestnut brown with acid and corrosion resistant soles but they had to be welded rather than stiched.

Before buying this watch I had questioned all of the above before relying on my gut instinct and the belief there was someone as obsessive as my late grandfather.

Date wheel aside my instinct told me the dial and hands fitted a time frame of 3 years either side of 1963 which is a good indicator it's all original. The more expensive gilt dial and gold hand combo instilled this belief even more.

Sometimes a little leap of faith is required and the above evidence helped me.

Oh and finally if this was the combination chosen by the original owner in Vienna in 1963 he or she had fantastic taste.

Hi Baden,

Hats off for your research, and the thought that you have put into the matter.

Based on what you have presented, I would agree that it is likely to be an original dial. To parse it out a bit further…

1. Some dial replacements were made using older dials, so the fact that this is an older style dial (and I agree with that assessment) does not preclude the possibility that it was used as a replacement during a later period.

2. If the lume in the hands matches that on the indexes, and I certainly believe you, and it shows the color (more yellow/brown than green/blue), and patina that one would expect of such an old watch, then I agree that it would strongly support the view that it is an original dial.

3. I agree, and noted that initially. Very uncommon 666 dial variation.

4, Good point!

5./6. I agree with you completely on this. It is far more likely (though obviously not certain) that the date wheel would have been either replaced, or an original special order for visibility, than the dial and hands having replaced a light dial and hand set.

So, well done all around, and congratulations on a quite a rare 666AD in remarkable condition!

Regards,

Tony C.

Thanks Tony it's so good to get a bit of a seal of approval from you

Thanks Tony it's so good to get a bit of a seal of approval from you

Thanks Tony it's so good to get a bit of a seal of approval from you

Thanks Tony it's so good to get a bit of a seal of approval from you

There's something up with this forum I've tried to post a larger reply and it only posts my first line? Very odd?

It's a re-dial Baden,What do you think the odds would be for a watch to last looking like that in nos condition from Wien '63 and yet still own the wrong or damaged second hand,irregardless of the hand Somebodies been in it since '63 and got things not just so (imho)

Baden –

Catherine (aka ONEREDTRIM) is a skeptic by nature. To be fair, I am as well, at least when it comes to vintage watches.

So, if you could provide some better quality images of the dial, preferably large and head-on, we can try to assess it more finely.

She may be correct, though I'm not sure, but good photos would certainly help.

Also, do you have any photos of the movement?

Regards,

Tony

Hi Tony shoot me an email too b.h@ntlworld.com I'll send some better pictures.

Regards Baden

Having seen macros, I can say that it is definitely not a redial. I also believe that the hands are consistent in terms of condition.

The only question remaining, at least to my mind, is whether or not the watch left the factory with that particular dial.

Thank you Tony I've asked iwc the question but I doubt I'll get an answer.

I suppose if if the dial has been changed for a genuine iwc ingenieur dial and hands is the worse case senario I'm very happy.

It's so difficult to guarantee 100% unless you have the full history or purchase the watch from the original owner.

It's a watch I've dreamt about for years so I want too try and not take the shine off buying this watch.

People's opinions on original dials has changed my 8531 automatic pictured here with my ingenieur and mark xi I did try to sell a few years ago and everybody moaned about the dial condition.
I'm so glad I didn't get a sale as everybody now loves it and think it's amazing.

Thanks for your help guys it's been emotional