One of my favorite Mark 11 images

Very nice collage, thanks for sharing Michael.
Had no idea there was a white dial variation.
I also don't recognize the one in the middle of the last row. Is that too a Mark 11 (perhaps civilian edition)?

Cheers,
Evan

An excellent collage of one of my favorite IWCs and definitely the best overall mechanical navigator/pilot watch ever made. Just about everything about that watch is perfect.
The Mark 11, in the middle of the lower row, appears to be from the former B.O.A.C., but with the hands of the post-1963 Mark 11.

The watch in the small picture in the middle of the first row appears to have a blue dial? Or is it just the reflection?

The authors of the "Man is not Lost" excellent article on the Mark 11 say that "...the so called "white dial", all examples we have seen are brass, depriving the movement of the the MoD specified magnetic shielding." The authors are probably referring to the dial being made of brass, not the case, since it is not the case that protects the movement against magnetic fields. The movement in the Mark 11 is enclosed in a soft iron cylinder on the sides, on the bottom by a soft iron cover incorrectly called "dust cover", and on top by the soft iron dial. These 3 parts protect the movement.
If the dial is made of brass, the watch would not be a-magnetic, unless there is a thin layer of soft iron between the dial and the movement, which no one mentioned.
Since the Mark 11 was a tool for military use in a harsh magnetic environment, and the success of military missions, and lives of airmen depended on its accuracy, is highly unlikely the (so called) white dial, be a true Mark 11, IMHO.

The use of a brass dial will not determine that the faraday cage is not complete, it simply means it will have less resistance, though if somebody specifically coated it i'm sure the resistance could be highered. Lets pre-presume Mr. Dowlings lost the plot for a second and white dialled variants never appeared via MOD auctions, do you really think the person who is suggesting having fabricated them knew what to coat them with or had the wherewithall to also produce a black dialled copy of a white type just to keep tandem with the actions of the MOD themselves.
If you look into it you'll also find an inbetween antimagnetic dial officially used by the British Military, this will be split through it's depth to provide half iron and half brass, looks like they were getting a touch specific.

P.S. IWC have produced non ironed dialled antimagnetic (-ish) watches with white dials for footballers.

Clepsydra & Michael - thank you for all the follow up info!
I don't know if this is accurate or not but I had read somewhere that the BOAC Mark 11s were exactly the same as their military siblings but without the military engravings on the case.

Cheers,
Evan

The watch in the middle is the stunt double in every way to the white variants, the fabricator was quoted to have chosen white to provide the market with choice and hurry the sales along, unfortunately whoever dreamt that porkie up needs to invent somesuch for it's black 1 st cousin.

Very nice Michael. Did you compose this?

Cheers from Isobars.

The BOAC Mark 11 did no go through the improvements the military Mark 11 did. The dial still has 12 instead of the triangle, the hour hand is still "pointed", the glass is still round on the edges, and luminosity is still achieved through 226Ra paint. BOAC did not improve their Mark 11s either because it found the changes not cost effective, or because it did not have the equivalent to Herstmonceaux . As a consequence, the BOAC Mark 11 is like the first Mark 11s were in 1948.
The engravings in the case back reflect BOAC ownership, and like the military Mark 11s they do not have a case number, which creates an interesting (read frustrating) problem when trying to obtain the Certificate of Genuineness from IWC.
Here is an image of my recently acquired BOAC Mark 11, rescued from a shed in Northern England where it had been stored for over 30 years, and just prior to be thrown into the trash.

I beg to differ, for an military aviation watch, operating in a cramped environment with many and strong magnetic fields, it is essential that the Faraday cage be completed, in addition to other features that render the watch a-magnetic. Navigating at 8 nautical miles per minute requires all the accuracy they can get. Brass dials just won't cut it. The only compromise is the small hole for the winding/setting shaft, but there is no way around it.

As to supposedly antimagnetic(-ish) watches IWC produced for footballers, I can only only say that the amount of Gauss generated by the magnetic personalities of the players and coaches of the German football team may not be sufficient to upset any movement.
I will refrain from commenting further on that particular watch.

I beg to differ, for an aviation watch, operating in a cramped environment with many and strong magnetic fields, it is essential that the Faraday cage be completed, in addition to other features that render the watch a-magnetic. The only compromise is the small hole for the winding/setting shaft, but there is no way around it.

Well Clep...your differing is based on a 1mm coated brass dial not offering any anti-magnetic protection and it kinda does. The German military Oceans don't do 2000m's, guess what....they ain't bothered.

Whilst your on the line....do you have thoughts at all with regard to who produced the specific black dialled '89 that you highlighted earlier in the thread (centre bottom row).

It is, most likely, a BOAC Mark 11. Please see my previous posting in this thread.

I would'nt wager a lot on it being a BOAC or housing an iron dial Clep but it will have tritium on the dial of exactly the same format to it's white twin, which is of the exact same make-up to product the MOD were useing in and around the early-sixties. Shame someone exchanged the hand-kit.

Yes, it is possible, it is not a true BOAC Mark 11 but, even if it is, the hands are wrong. We have no way of knowing for sure.

It is also possible ('Knocking bet') that it is'nt remotely BOAC'd and had no intention of ever being so.

If the BOAC watch you've highlighted is owned by your goodself then have your watchmaker check the balance for you...my memory is a bit flaky but i seem to recall some late (or was it early) serial No.'s had thier balances tweaked (further).

It has been difficult enough to decipher your postings, but now I do not have the faintest idea what you are talking about. I will close this thread here.

From a good friend of mine, who is now a retired BA pilot but started his career at BOAC, the Mark 11 was not highly regarded or looked after by pilots in the latter days of use. A Mark 11 would be thrown in the map bag collected by the captain before he boarded the plane. When my friend was flying in the 1970s, most pilots had bought their own new electric or quartz watches and the Mark 11 was rarely pulled out of the bag. He recalls examples being several minutes out on a long haul flight to Australia. South of the equator lacked the navigational beacons that allowed pilots to navigate north of the equator without recourse to sextant and watch. Sadly, my friend who has none of the emotional attachments that I have to the Mark 11, has any idea as to what happened to the watches after they were abandoned. They did not have the same level of servicing that the MOD watches had and were considered to be relics of a bye-gone age. A bit like the 747s that make up much of the long haul fleet today.

The Mark 11 was retired from active flight duty in the RAF in 1971, I think, and had a rigorous maintenance schedule program since 1949, having provided 23 years of accurate service.
If by the 1970's the BOAC Mark 11s were considered unreliable by the pilots, it was not because it was a bad watch, but because BOAC failed to properly maintain them. I am sure that if BOAC had maintained their Mark 11s as it maintained their aircraft, the Mark 11s would keep much better time. The other way around is unthinkable.
In any event, by the mid 70s, the quartz onslaught was ongoing, and there is no denying that for pure accuracy there is no competing with quartz. I was starting my airline career in the mid-70s and used a quartz watch. Left the Navitimer at home.

BTW, a while ago I took my Mark 11 from 1948 on a 10 hour flight (jump seat) to the Southern Hemisphere and she kept in sinc with the GPS clock all the flight. Not bad for an old lady. :-)
I occasionally fly airplanes older than I and, although they are no longer cost effective for commercial operations, they still deliver the performance they did when they were new in 1945. It is all a matter of maintenance.

Thanks clepsydra for the story and picture!

Kind regards,

Clemens

+1

Thanks Rave,

Too bad that these watches were treated with so little respect. I wonder if somewhere in an old addic, there is a box with dozens of Mk 11's lying around, just waiting to be found one day... I guess however it's easier to find a dozen of 747's nicely parked in a desert...

Kind regards,

Clemens