Possibly fake IWC Vintage Portugieser Ref 325

Hello Forum,

im new to this forum and found it as while researching a newly acquired watch.
I know the seller very well and he assured me in a written contact that he
will refund the full purchase price if the watch turns out as "not as
described".

He sold (we agreed on) a Vintage IWC Portugiese "Porugieser" in an 41.5mm case
(without crown) and equipped with caliber 74 movement. He told me that the
watch had a complete overhaul, meaning that the movement
was swapped (i am aware of the extract problem because of this), the dial
repainted (restored) and the case
"professionally" polished.

I can live with the swapped movement and the refurbished dial but its
important for me that the case is original. If not, the watch would be a
complete fake built arround a cal 74
movement. To be honest, i expect it to be a fake but i thought to give it a
try backed by the money-back warranty.

Please find pictures attached and many thanks for your review and examination.

Roman

more pictures

Hello Roman,

I am sorry, but I completely disagree about your thoughts about a vintage ref.
325 Portugieser.

The watch has become a cult watch and its exceptional high price is only
justified if the watch is completely authentic.

The minimum conditions for this are that the case and the movement should
match and belong to a watch sold as a ref. 325.

For that you need at least an extract of the archives from IWC.

If the case is a real vintage Portugieser ref. 325 but the movement is not,
the value of the watch drops to 1 percent of the real stuff.

Thousands of cal. 74 movements have been produced by IWC.

Ony after authentication has been assured by IWC, other issues can be
considered such as a repainted dial , wrong crown or overpolished case, etc.

Regards,

Adrian.

thanks for your quick reply. it appears that we have diiferent opinions about
the watch. i undestand and respect that you only value a watch with matching
serial and caseback numbers but i could also live with a movement swap as long
as the main parts of the watch are original, in particular the case.

It would be great to know if someone on here could tell me if the case of this
model is a polished original or a fake.

This information is officially only known by IWC and it will not been
disclosed to prevent forgery.

Adrian.

Hello Roman and welcome to the forum. Here's just a little information
although it does not answer your question. Using the numbers I see in your
photos we can gather the following information from the Date Your IWC
database:

Summary:

The movement is a Sav. calibre 74, dating from the year 1927.
The case was most probably produced resp. delivered around 1942.

Valid entry in "Index of Movement Numbers"

1927 859,001-860,200 Sav. c. 74 - 17lig. H 4

Valid entries in "Index of Case Numbers"

1937-1944 1,000,000-1,100,000 old IWC index compatible with new case index
of
2002

1940-1950 1,020,000-1,176,000 current IWC index compatible with old list from
2001

thanks for your quick replys. ill the watch to the local IWC store for
examination and keep you guys updated. Wether its real or fake reverse
engeneering what might happend to it is a real joy.

Roman

I realize you are new here and we welcome you. You should know that Mr. Van
der Meijden is a
long standing and highly respected expert on the subject of IWC. You are
fortunate that he has taken time to share advice with you. I recommend you
listen carefully to what he is saying, but of course it is your choice to do
so or not.

thanks for your reply.

i have posted the same questions in another forum and someone pmed me and
offered 8500 Euro for the watch. i have no intention to sell the watch (at
least not now) but there appears to be a market for it, even if its only worth
the sum of its parts, or so. i decided to pull the tripper on this watch
because a 100% period correct ref 325 is simply not in my price range and im
really fully ok with a watch thats completely restored as long as its not a
replica. i understand that this may be offensive to the experts on here and
also want to apologize for the headache caused and say thanks for the advice
and time. That being said, ill keep you updated wheter or not i manage to find
out if the case is original.