Sent Pocket Watch to Schaffhausen, Received a Non-Ticking Watch

Hi all,

I sent my (running) 80-year old pocket watch to Schaffhausen via a boutique a few months ago to get a service/restoration quote, which I decided to decline. When I picked it up however, it was not working. So without me retaking possession, the boutique sent it back to Schaffhausen to see what happened.

The diagnosis given was:
- Due to the age of the watch, some of the parts were probably not well suited to being shipped.
- The service center in Schaffhausen did not dismantle the watch, so did not analyze which piece(s) might have broke or could not determine what happened.

Some parts might be old but I doubt they were extremely fragile; I walked around with the watch in my pocket more than a few times, and each time it continued to run.

It was placed in the original box it came in, and I’m sure the boutique took care when packing. But who knows what happened or how the package was handled between leaving the boutique and arriving at Schaffhausen.

Just a couple other points I thought of:
- Does IWC not have any insurance when they send watches internationally?
- Do they not have any responsibility to return a piece in the same condition that it was shipped?
- Does the service center examine a timepiece before determining whether it is capable or not of being shipped to Schaffhausen?

The staff at the boutique probably don’t have the training to determine the overall condition of the calibre and mechanics in the 10-20 minutes it takes to create a service case. Not placing blame on the staff.

The main issue is I sent in a running pocket watch - via the boutique - but received a non-running pocket watch when it came back. Can anyone provide advice on options, what should I/can I do, and has anyone had a similar experience?

Thanks

Hi all,

Does anyone have advice, comments, or experiences they can share?

I think experience, and the issue at hand, are a pretty serious one and worth having a discussion about.

Thanks

Hi Francis
I’m sorry to hear that your Pocket Watch has stopped running. 

I’m guessing you did not receive any answers from the Forum because it is something that none of us can answer. I have sent watches in for service and I have received them in fine order, but they actually had their service. 

You sent in a Watch for a service/restoration quote which you declined. I’m assuming you sent it in because these actions were required. 
When last was the watch serviced? The watch could have eventually stopped running, even if you had not sent it in. 

You said it yourself: “but who knows what happened or how the package was handled between leaving the boutique and arriving at Schaffhausen?”

I’m sure that if the watch had been serviced, you would have received it in fine order, and that work would have been under warranty.

Dear Francis

First of all I may second Mark: It is hard for any forumer to judge on your case.

But in general to send a pocket watch as a parcel notwithstanding which carrier we talk about is much riskier than to send a wristwatch: Pocket watches have no shock protection device, what anyhow dramatically increases the risk the balance staff breaks or is bend. In addition pocket watches have  balances, which have other dimensions than wrist watch balances, both in terms of diameter and weight. Transportation of parcels result in more intensive shocks than wearing it in your pocket and the impact is much heavier, when the shock occurs when the balance is standing still as when in full motion.

And a second hint: You say your PW is 80 years old, so it is from the mid 1930ies. Cal. 67 and Cal. 52 H 5 are quite sturdy, Cal. 73/74/77/97 are a little bit delicate. However, with a Cal. 95 you will experience, that it here and then without any obvious reasons stop. You bring it to a watchmaker, who doesn't really find any defect, presses a litte bit here and here, takes the balance out and puts it in again and out of a sudden, the watch starts ticking again. So if your watch is a Cal. 95: it is normal that no visible defect is given, it is simple a for the time cutting edge design which causes trouble from time to time. It became better no earlier than in the 1960ies.

Regards

Th. Koenig

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the response. I also have no doubt in my mind that if I followed through with the service, the pocket watch would have given me the fine satisfaction of "wow!" once I took it out of the packaging, and running no less. I've sent in my watch to Schaffhausen before and had nothing but praise for the service once I got it back (even mentioned it in a previous post if memory serves me correct). 

Just by looking at the watch from the dial side, and opening the backside to reveal the movement, it probably didn't need a servicing, but who knows about the internal components that can't be seen. The dial certainly showed some ageing, but that's the beauty of it - it really does reflect its age. The bridges are incredibly shiny, and all the gears turned, and the quality just looked inredible for an 80 year old piece. The last time the watch was serviced was at least two years ago by the watchmaker I bought it from; I bought it one year ago (2017) and saw it for the first time one year before purchasing it (2016).

Again, the main issue is that I sent in a running pocket watch - via an IWC boutique - but received a non-running pocket watch when it came back. Because I sent it in via a boutique, I probably just thought it would be a smooth process and even if something were to happen, at the very least it wouldn't be to receive a non-ticking watch with the explanation of "not much we can do about it besides servicing it." - I'm not sure if that was the correct mindset to have or not. Of course, it is an antique, so I probably should've put more thought into it, asked more questions, but also perhaps in future cases IWC should -and need to - enlighten antique owners before sending their piece in of some possiblities that can happen during shipping, and if you don't accept a service/restoration quote it could come back not running - I never once thought I'd get back a watch that did not run; again, maybe it's my problem that I didn't think of that possibility. I DO NOT - for one second - think that because I declined the service, it resulted in mishandling and came back not running - that would just be completely idiotic. 

I'm not trying to shift all the blame to IWC - we all know they do great watch servicing - but I really do find it quite difficult to accept the policy of "sending in a working watch to a big brand (that I absolutely love and is undoubtedly my favorite) --> declining the service --> getting it back in non-working condtion, and there isn't anything they can do about it and feel like they're not even going to try; unrequitted love perhaps haha? At the risk of coming off as rambling and complaining, just expressing my thoughts whether they're right or wrong. The pocket watch is still at Schaffhausen as I'm still deciding what to do.

I'm not trying to get concrete examples or answers, each case is different, just hoping see what you guys think of this, possible ways to approach this, and to share an experience so everyone can better approach the next time they send in an antique piece. 

Like you said no one has an answer, so maybe we can all learn something new together; there's a first for everything!

Hi T. Koenig,

Thanks for the insight and the interesting and differences between pocket watches and wristwatches - those are great things to keep in mind. I don't have much experience with pocket watches; this is my first and only one, but I absoutely love it.

My pocket watch is a Calibre 97, but do you think maybe if the balance is taken out and put in again it might allow it to run again? Is it something to consider trying?

Thanks

Dear Francis

I can't read the movement No. from your pic. But what you have is for sure no Cal. 97, but a Cal 95.

The Cal. 95 looks very similar, but is 3 mm in heigth instead of 4 mm with the Cal. 97 or in other word 25% per cent less in height. And that is a lot in terms of stability. These super slim pocket watches from the 1930ies  - notwithstanding which brand -  are all prone to cause trouble.

I personally love the Cal. 95 as a movement as well as the look of the super slim dress watches of the 1920ies and 1930ies. So I tried to wear them daily. In the end I gave up and got back to older and thicker ones, just because of their reliabiltiy, sturdiness and last, but not least outstanding accuracy.

I assume IWC checked your watch, found nothing they could do except servicing it (knowing that the service would not fix the general problems of this calibre) and on the way back something happened that made your watch stop - what can at any time happen with a Cal. 95 in your safe, lying on your desk, kept  in your pocket, exposed to only very gentle shocks. By now nobody knows, what makes the watch stop. For good reasons the open face Cal. 97 has a hunter twin, the Cal. 98, while the Cal. 95 open face calibre never got a Cal. 96 hunter twin.

I  started collecting pocket watches 35 years ago and own quite a lot. Put yours in a showcase and look out for another one 5 or 6 mm in height for daily/regular use. The iconic navigational pocket watches the Royal Navy bought in WW II for good reasons were 6 mm in height at a time 3 mm and 4 mm were fashionable.

Regards

Thomas Koenig

Hi Thomas,

That's really interesting and thanks for your experiences. When you mention thinness of the movement and your first-hand experiences with moving back to thicker calibres, the trade off betweeen thicker and thinner calibres is quite clear, especially when you say 1 mm is 25% of a 4 mm thick movement. 
I went to the boutique this weekend and had a good conversation about this case and once again declined the service. I will take it to the watchmaker I got it from and see if taking out the balance and putting it back in will do the trick to get it running again. If not, I will just display it because I think it's such a great looking pocketwatch and just simply like how similar but different it looks to a modern Portuguese.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

I believe sending to Schaffhausen is still your best bet. One thing that is keeping me from collecting more IWCs is the quality of “local” after-sales service. The lifespan of my IWCs seem to shorten; one ran too fast and the other ran too slow, just 3 years after their initial service; and I usually take good care of them. Assessment reports showed no mishandling. Just sharing my experience. And I swear to myself the next service (hopefully not in the near term), I will try to get them sent straight to Schaffhausen.

My preference is for it to be serviced at Schaffhausen, but because of this sentence in the quote, which goes "by signing you irrevocably waive the right to demand the return of the replaced components." I lose my interest in getting it serviced there. If it was a modern watch getting serviced, then I wouldn't mind.

I like this watch because of all the aged metal in it. It is amazing how shiny and like-new the plates and other components are, but there is also a "patina" of sorts on it, like a layer of wisdom that has formed on top of the metal that shows it's not new - I can't really describe it. Because I like the watch for its aged parts, I'd rather not replace them - unless the "new" parts were actually made 80 years ago and are being fitted into a watch for the first time.

And last but not least, I don't really appreciate getting told I can't do anything to get back the components from a watch that I paid for, especially as mentioned I like the watch and parts for their age. I understand IWC (or any other manufacturer) wanting to keep the components so they don't turn up on some whatever black market where they can be copied and used to make potentially fake watches.

Any ideas on why that could be? Lubrication issues, not the correct oil/lubricants used, etc?

Thanks for sharing.

Not sure. The results of their diagnosis was typically “movement accuracy not in specifications”. The boutique assistant even commended the condition of my watches when I send in. I owned a Portuguese handwound 8 days, Portuguese chrono and Pilot Mark heritage. The 8 days is the one running too fast while the chrono slow after their initial service. Starting to regret fixing what ain’t broken. Anyway, do you guys send in your IWCs for servicing every 3-5 years even when they are working fine?

My personal experience is 8 years between service intervals works well. 
But, the watches are not worn continually. They are in rotation and generally are worn at least once a week.