Should I have my Jones caliber pocket watch serviced?

I've been away from the forum for some time, as other interests and
obligations pushed my pocket watch collection aside. Recently I had to develop
a catalog of my watches for insurance purposes, and this has rekindled my
enthusiasm.

The core of my collection is eight complete and working Jones caliber watches
and six working uncased Jones movements. In that group of fourteen, the
standout is an E-grade (SN 5822) watch in a heavy, engraved 18K gold hunter
case with a glass cover over the movement. This watch is very close to mint
condition, and in fact I doubt that it has ever been carried or serviced. It
was just put away and passed down through a family until I was able to buy it
a few years ago. I have had conflicting advice about how to care for this
watch. It runs and keeps time and it would no doubt survive quite well in the
safe. One watchmaker friend has advised me to leave it untouched and another
disagrees, saying that it deserves to be comprehensively refreshed and
occasionally carried.

I lean toward getting the watch serviced, but would those of you familiar with
these special watches share your opinions on this issue? Show of hands:
Service or Leave Alone?

If you have a competent watchmaker you trust who can service the watch, a good
clean and lube will help keep this (I can imagine) beautiful piece in top
condition. And yes, it does deserve to be run once in a while. Please do share
some photos.

Hi Jon,

Everything depends from the skill of the watchmaker.

My personal experience is as follows. For a long time IWC could completely
service a Jones caibre but now many parts are not longer available. Moreover,
service in Schaffhausen is costly.

So, even if a movement runs it is found out during service that balance
staffs, escape wheel, winding mechanisme etc. are worn and have to be repaired
or exchanged. That can only be done by a very skilled watchmaker who is able
to work with the lathe. They can be found in the UK, more than in the US and
Europe.

To case a Jones movement is a complete other story. It is nearly impossible ,
due to the aberrant size of the Jones movement, to find a fitting case in
Europe or USA. As you know IWC never cased a Jones movement. The first half of
the production was cased in the US, the second half by different case
manufacturers in Europe, after F.F. Seeland had stopped export to the US. To
make a fitting case from scratch is currently extremely expensive: at least
3000 $ for the gold- if you chose that- and another 3000 $ for the making.
American cases , size 16 are too small, size 18 too big. This problem can be
solved by selecting an 18 size gold filled case from the era and making a ring
that fills the gap between the outside diameter of the movement and the inside
diameter of the case. Such ring has to be made customised to each watch : very
difficult and time consuming. As a collector, one must be rather disturbed (
as I am) to spend so much money on a Jones watch, as it does not pay back
these costs when you sell it .

Regards,

Adrian,

(alwaysiwc).

I appreciate these helpful replies. My watchmaker has overhauled two of my
uncased Jones movements. He does good work and I would trust him with the
E-grade. I only hesitate because a friend who has been a watch appraiser for
auction houses insists that the watch is more "authentic" (and perhaps
therefore more valuable) if the movement has never been touched since it left
the factory. He may (or may not) be right about this, but I enjoy my watches
when I can take them out of my pocket and watch them tick. I don't expect to
sell this watch and I don't worry about it losing value, so I lean toward
having it serviced so that I can use it occasionally without concern.

In a later post I will add pictures of the watch.

If your watchmaker is competent, I would do the same as you suggest.

If you are afraid about authenticy, it might be useful to contact Jones
collectors who might have exactly that part of an 'E' movement that you need
for restoration as it is impossible to find an NOS part after 150 years in
Schaffhausen. Some watchmakers are magicians to copy a worn wheel, shaft or
lever.

I look forward to see your watch(es) here.

Regards,

Adrian

(alwaysiwc).

Adrian,

The issue that my appraiser friend raised is not about actually replacing an
original part. He argues that if there is any evidence at all that the watch
has been worked on, such as scratches or indications that screws have been
moved, and so on, the watch is no longer "unmolested." If it runs and looks
new (as my watch does), he says to leave it alone! I haven't heard this
extreme argument from other watch collectors, and I do not know if it is a
common view. For me, it seems unrealistic, but I am curious to know if others
hold the same opinion.

Jon

Hi Jon,

For me the opinion of your friend sounds a bit strange.

Almost all collectable pocket watches have become collectors items after
W.W.II.

Then they were already 70-100 years old and they were considered to be
functional watches for daily wear.

Even the best quality watches had been by then in the hands of watch makers
for cleaning, service or repair and in most cases they were not returned to
the manufacturers but handled by local watchmakers who were abundantly around
and who were real craftsmen.

So, to encounter an untouched watch, made in 1875 is like finding a needle in
a haystack, I guess.

Of course this is subjective and fashion changes over the years. Not long ago
IWC used to restore a vintage watch in such way that it looked new. Now IWC
asks beforehand if they should yes or no polish the case and exchange the
dial.

Regards,

Adrian,

(alwaysiwc)

I'm struggling with posting pictures. These links should show the movement,
dial and case. I'll post more later.

www.dropbox.com/s/a2eim056udgwdq0/IMG_4649.JPG?dl=0

www.dropbox.com/s/bt40methb7h443o/Stockton%20dial.bmp.jpg?dl=0

www.dropbox.com/s/68rrjyf0obopywu/IMG_4644.JPG?dl=0

Hi Jon!

As long as the watch does run and the oil is not heavily gummed, I would not
service it:

a) With the Royal Observatory in Greenwich it is and always was a rule, not to
service any watch except it shall be issued. To service it comprises more
risks than chances, so the guys from the National Maritime Museum and in
former times the guys from the chronometer department.

b) When the watch only runs here and then and it works properly there is no
need to service. If fthe oil begins to gum, re-consider to have it serviced.
As Adrian said: A complete untouched watch might result in a premium (as
watches do, which come directly from the vault of a jeweler and have never
been sold). So why destroy the chance of achieving a premium when there is no
need to service it? To let ir run from time to time enhances the time until
the oil really gums.

Regards Thomas Koenig

Thanks for posting my pictures. Are there instructions for how to upload
photographs to the forum?

Jon

Jon,

I forgot to ask.

Does your 'E'beauty have an IWC signed case?

Adrian.

Adrian,

No, there is no IWC mark or logo on the case. It has an 18K mark and the
number 16246 on both the front and back covers. In addition, on the back cover
there is the word WARRANTED and beneath that an oval with two stars and the
number 18. Under that number is what I think is the casemaker 's title,
starting, I think, with the letters CA, but the name is imperfectly stamped
and even with the loupe I can't be sure what it says. With a macro lens I may
be able to decipher it.

When I look very closely, I can see some very faint code marks left by
watchmakers that I had not noticed earlier. My impression that the movement
has neverbeen touched is wrong! It has been serviced before, and I
will not hesitate to have it done again.

It's good that I rejoined the forum. I know more about this watch now than I
did a week ago!

Jon

Jon,

It is nice to see on the forum collectors who appreciate calibre Jones p.w.'s.

There are few and certainly those with 14 Jones watches and movements are
rare.

I also saw your name cited by Alan Myers in the 'Jones book'.

Regards,

Adrian.

A few photos of my Pattern R Jones that was recently serviced. After a clean,
oil and regulation, this 140 year old beauty averaged +1.1 seconds per day
over a two week period!