VIRTUAL POCKET WATCH MUSEUM DAY 15, PALLWEBER I

What a magnificent golden example of a Pallweber - trully beautiful.

The Pallweber watch I want to share with you today to compliment Tonny's post,
is exactly the opposite - in fact it's an ugly duckling.

All that glistens is not Gold

So here we have another Golden Timepiece - however as you can see, it has no
Gold Case but rather a Gold colored dial. Which dial as you can see is also
rather crudely finished.

Some of you might recall this "ugly dialed" Pallweber, originally sold to
Emil Bronner & Cie. Vienna on 18th October 1886.

It turned out to be a rather special piece, when after some research David
Seyffer IWC Museum Curator was able to discover in the archives that is was
one of 2 Pallwebers out of an order total of 10 Pallwebers - where it was
specially indicated that 2 watches were delivered with "dials for
painting".

Now, as Tonny wrote yesterday, we have seen before many magnificent and
elaborate dials on the pallweber (this being a topic for tomorrow or another
day). However, one had always assumed that the dials were all enamel dials as
was the norm in those days (certainly for high end timepieces the likes of
which IWC Schafhuasen were producing).

So intially we thought this must be a "redial" where the original enamel dial
had cracked and was replaced by an amateur hand made dial. However, when David
found the note in the sales ledger indicating " 2x special dial for painting"
I relaised extra research was needed. So we removed the dial from the watch.

To discover, that this was indeed no "hand made cheap dial". As you see here
below, the dial itself is manufactured from brass, and is in fact machined to
create the depth for the hour and minute windows. Whereas, all the enamel
dials are of copper (not brass - as enamel does not adhere to brass). So it
was clearly also never intended to be enamel.

So, the idea here was that the watch left the manufactury fitted with these
brass dials - where we presume the dials were crudely painted over in order to
prevent oxidation of the dial surface. One arrived at the end seller, the
local jeweler would remove the dial and outsource this to a local artist where
on commision, any image could be painted on the dial for the end customer.

So for instance, a nice natural scene, or maybe some flowers to own design
etc.

Given that this dial was meant "for painting", some of you shall also recall
that I too comissioned an artist to paint the dial with a scene of my choice.

I love this dial - my only regret is that Schaffhausen todate refuse to mount
it on the watch - saying something is not quiet correct.

Very rare Tonny.

I have seen only one more example.

Around the German book from Meis, I referred to yesterday, is a paper
protecting cover with the same Dutch logo Pallweber on it..

Regards,

Adrian,

(alwaysiwc).

Mark,

The 'crude' dial puzzles me.

All watches from that era had enamel covered and oven baked dials.

If the dial was meant for 'painting afterwards', why does it not have enamel?

Could a wholesaler apply enamel himself?

Interesting topic,

Adrian,

(alwaysiwc).

Hello Adrian,

I must correct you, there were several Pallwebers (mostly Pallweber III.) with
painted metal dials.

Best regards

Áron

Thank you Aron.

Again a learning moment for me.

As you are THE expert, perhaps you can post interesting Pallwebers?

It is much appreciated.

Adrian,

(alwaysiwc).

Adrian no, as Aron correctly points out there were many examples of these
dials intended to be oil painted.

Given these dials were made of brass, they could NOT be enamelled. Enamel can
only be applied to 100% pure copper, silver or gold.

So the intention was to hand paint them.

Adrian,

I have only a few Pallwebers already, and none of them is as unique as the
one posted in this topic. ;)

Thanks.

Áron

Mark,

I'm not sure that all of the similar dials were created with an intention of
"custom made" after painting. I know a couple of examples of "plain" copper
dials with final inscription of "International Watch Company" without any
additional painting.

Best regards

Áron

Aron, you mean original copper (not yellow brass) dials, that were simply
painted and had no enamel?

This would be a first (that I've heard of or seen.) Do you maybe have photos
of such
dials? It would be very intresting to have David Seyffer check the archives to
see if those dials were registered as such. For the example Pallweber I
posted above, David found a clear notation against case / watch serial number,
that the dial was "for painting" .

Mark,

I was misunderstandable with using the word "copper" for surely and not brass.
I really don't know the exact material used for these two dials I mentioned.
Sorry for it. One of these dials was examined by David and others from our
researcher team and David also has checked the watch in the archives in 2011,
and there were no found any data about its dial, the only thing we could
determine was that the movement was sold without case. It was almost 10 years
ago, so I can't remember for each detail, but I remember clearly that the dial
was a Subject of an argue about its autenthicity, but at the end I was lucky
to have chance to disassemble the Watch and the dial was original. Since then
I have seen the same looking dial on a Ladies Pallweber.

Best regards

Áron

Mark,

Also would like to sign, that the dial posted above (alone and in case with
movement) is not a Pallweber I dial. The movement under it is a Pallweber IIIA
movement. If we are talking about two different dials, then please, forgive me
for the missunderstanding.

Best regards

Áron

Aron Thanks and understood. Highly probable that that dial was brass too.

Your own experience and the discussion around "authenticity" of that dial, is
for me an ongoing discussion. The dials (all dials) were outsourced then, as
they are today. Some to large concerns who had teams of talented artists doing
the fine enameling work, and others to smaller mom 'n pop cottage industry
manufacturers. These were small operations and probable quality control was
not always as good as desired. However, who would ever think (in 1885/86) to
make fake Pallweber dials , and for what reason?

No misunderstanding.

we should try to post a movement only serving photos of the three different
Types.

Being Type I, Type II & Type III

Mark

Thanks for your response.

I agree that there was no point in producing fake dials at the time when
Pallwebers were manufactured. In the case of the dial I refered to, the main
question was its age, because it was clear that someone had tried to repaint
the inscriptions of it and it made the dial being suspicious from the view of
its origin. In the other hand the indicator-disc holes and their frame-angles
were so perfect, that the dial seemed to be an original dial of a Pallweber
IIIA, which fact has been proved by removing and examining the dial.

Áron

There is no doubt (read: ZERO DOUBT) in my humble opinion that this dial is
100% original to that watch.

If the records in Schaffhausen reflect that the movement in this Watch was
sold as a bare movement, then I'm also pretty convinced that the movement
shipped with that dial on it!