• 16 Apr 2020, 5:22 p.m.

    As some of you know, I am collecting pocketwatches, IWC only.

    Far from saying that my collection is a museum collection but I am proud to
    have found some nice and rare pieces over time.

    Some of the pocketwatches are common, easy to find on the market, sometimes in
    better condition than mine, but some I have are gems.

    So in these crazy times, as the museum in Schaffhausen is closed, why not open
    one here on the forum.

    As long as the museum is closed, I will post here daily a pocketwatch from my
    collection.

    I hope I don't run out of pieces before the virus is beaten. Fingers crossed
    for all of us.

    I will post them in a random order, with some comments, feel free to join.

    Keep safe all.

    DAY 26 : the super rare cal 47

    Since this week, we are showing the cal 52, 53 and some of the forerunners
    like cal 49, here is the cal 47.

    In a gold case 14K with casenumber 1082.

    In the old archives of the forum, I found a post by Adrian van der Meijden
    about the cal 47. Not much was to be found about that caliber, also an
    indication that it is a rare beast to find.

    Adrian wrote : " The interesting point for IWC pocket watch collectors to note
    is that the movement is almost identical to the cal. 52/53 movement with the
    exception of one obvious visible detail : the crown wheel and the rachet
    wheel, dominating the view of cal. 52/53, are not visible. They are covered by
    a three quarter plate, as seen during the Tschopp period. And, yes this
    forerunner was designed by Louis Tschopp, the technical director after Jones
    and Seeland had left IWC. These watches are extremely rare and it is unknown
    whether really 6.300 have been produced. Fritz, in his article, mentions a
    total of actually 6 watches known. Rolf Birkenkamper described 2 of them in
    "Watch 3/97", without calling them cal. 47....."

    Interesting that the illustration in Watch International ( case number 880 )
    shows a caseback that is in layout very close to mine.

    Strange is the the numbering of these cal 47, difficult to understand , at a
    certain point IWC added "20" in front of the serial numbers, so the watches
    shown or talked about in the old posts are more in the region of 2011386 or
    2011373.

    Mine has caliber number 21267.

    Another forum member wrote :"In fact this is from the new numbering system.
    The number 11373 is part of a group that goes by the number 11201-11400
    datable around the middle of 1885. I do not think there are cal. 47 that
    belong to the old numbering."

    Maybe mine is one belonging to the old numbering.

    We found the watch in the books and we see it was sold to the dealer Elias in
    Amsterdam in 1888.

    Elias was an important IWC dealer at that time. If you find IWC watches from
    that era in Holland, you have a big chance , these were sold by Elias.

    I am not sure about the hands if they are original or not.

    nothing too fancy on the movement, only this decoration.

  • Master
    16 Apr 2020, 5:23 p.m.

    As can be seen, the watch Tonny posted today (magnificent in it's gold case)
    is raising a lot of discusssion.

    This, is very postive and once again serves to highlight the need for
    continuily still needing to ensure that the research is done, and only through
    open debate as we have here, and knowledge share, are we clarifying and
    keeping the rich heritage of IWC Schaffhuasen alive.

    Now know, that up untill the discussions over the last week of what consttutes
    a Cal. 52/3 that I had not focused on the diferences in these movments, and
    rather classified them all simply here, as Cal. 52's.

    Now to best of my knowledge, I do not have a Calibre 46, 47, 48, 49 or 50 in
    my collection. Or so I thought.

    This new discussion here, and additional informations recieved today may just
    make this statement above of mine incorrect.

    So the watch I want to share with you today, is a rather nice Half Hunter.

    The Watch

    A savonette / Hunter execution

    with a movement I previousy would have simply tagged as a C.53

    And perfectly housed in a very nicely adorned half hunter case

    That the case and movement come out of Schafhausen is no debate over - the
    Schaffhuasen Bok is right there on the case

    As it is on the movement.

    And today Adrian has shared with me his preliminary thoughts that this is an
    early Calibre 50.

    If so, it's the only one in my collection and the only one I've seen.

    Please feel free to comment / corrent my content.

  • Connoisseur
    16 Apr 2020, 5:39 p.m.

    Dear Tonny

    What circumstances make you think your watch is from the old numbering?

    The Cal. 47 I saw/had in my hands have movement numbers from 21,xxx to 44,xxx.
    In case the prefix "20" was added the movement numbers shown on the movement
    are 2,021,xxx.

    You said your watch was made in 1885 and.was sold in 1888. As IWC has no
    production records on the time before March 1885, but your watch was spotted
    in the production records to me it sounds as the new numbering. But I'm open
    to consider any additional fact/theory.

    Regards!

    Thomas

    Anyhow: Congratulations to have acquired such a both nice and rare watch!

  • Master
    16 Apr 2020, 5:53 p.m.

    It is funny that a watch can look so different , only if the winding wheels
    have been covered. It is unknown ( at least to me) why the covering plate was
    applied and later in the devlopment of cal. 52/53 disappeared again. Fact is
    that the stabilisation of the crown wheel and the rachet wheel were a problem
    as the fixing of these wheels was modified several times ( 2 screws, one big
    screw etc.). Even patented solutions were developed. On the other hand,
    covering the big wheels might add to an increased height of the movement and
    less easy access to the movement for service or repair.

    Regards,

    Adrian,

    (alwaysiwc).

  • 16 Apr 2020, 6 p.m.

    Thank you Thomas, the missing of the 20 prefic made me doubt, but that is why
    I started
    the sentence with maybe.

    I was not sure if my idea was funded.

  • Master
    16 Apr 2020, 6:34 p.m.

    About the movement numbers of cal. 47.

    I have stored an aricle from Fritz Wagener, wich is more than 15 years old.

    Fritz is one of the handful of IWC collectors who were lucky to have access to
    the archives and sale records from the very early days IWC existed. Insights
    might have changed in the meantime as we have seen a decade ago when numerous
    facts about the Jones period were revealed.

    In summary Fritz writes :

    ' The numbers in the archives assigned to these movements lie between 11.201
    and 21650. However as the watch of the month August 2004, a cal 47 is
    presented with a 7 digit number : 2020703. In Watch International 3/1997 Rolf
    Birkenkamper mentions 3 watches which he calls Vorlaufer von cal.52/53 (
    forerunners) but he avoids to call them cal. 47. These have the movement
    numbers 2011386 and 2020688. Four more watches show up with the numbers
    2011287, 2020703, 2020704, 2025503.'

    Fritz Wagener has no clear explanation why the number 20 was placed before the
    5 digit numbers. His theory is that they could be meant for a specific market
    but a clear solution was not found. Maybe this has been solved in the
    meantime?

    Adrian,

    (alwaysiwc).

  • Master
    17 Apr 2020, 2:24 a.m.

    Quite a treasure trove of information here and some spectacular watches. Keep
    it coming fellas!