VIRTUAL POCKET WATCH MUSEUM DAY 29, cal 2002, quartz electronic

Tonny's post of today touches an open nerve here and raises a long-standing
debate around these quartz timepieces.

Are these timepieces worthy of the rich legacy of IWC? Do they represent Haute
Horologe? Are they real watches? Why is it that these watches are not deemed
by many to be Collectors items?

Today, we fully understand why the management in Schaffhausen needed to go
down this route in order to save the Company then at the time, from went down
in history as "the Quartz Crisis". A time, when watchmakers with generations
of fine Swiss watchmaking skills and techniques, were laid off en mass - and
those left behind in the manufactory asked (probably to their disdain) to work
on and assemble these new-fangled quartz thingamajigs.

Yet, if we take a close look at the quality of these watches and in looking at
the engraving on what was probably the only single "bridge" (if one can call
it that) in these movements that IWC staff themselves did any work on, we see
that it was carefully done to the highest standard. The engraving is even gold
inlayed.

Then look agai at Tonny pictures and at the magnificent quality of the case
work on those watches. Engineered again, to the highest of standards -
Probus Scafusia

Yet the question remains; is this pocket watch worthy of carrying the IWC
name, and does it do justice to the IWC Brand name.

The Watch :

The watch I wish to share with you today, to compliment Tonny's fine example
of a lesser quality movement in a higher quality case, is exactly 180 degrees
in the opposite direction.

The Story behind the Watch

One evening late during the second week of February 2017 whilst in Budapest
for work, I was in my hotel room about to retire for the night. I had an early
morning flight back to Amsterdam, so did not want to make it too late a night.

As was my habit and before hitting the sack, I would quickly login in to the
IWC forum to catch up on the days posts, and then spend a half hour browsing
the internet looking for that special IWC Pocket Watch to come up for sale,
somewhere. However, today there were no new and or exciting pieces listed and
I was just about to shutdown my laptop when this piece caught my eye.

For those in the know it looked like a Cal. 97, and one in pretty fair
condition. The seller, based in Bulgaria was listing this watch as a "Rare
unique Gold IWC Pocket Watch", and so definitely worthy of a second look.

But for sure only a very brief look - because this watch was clearly a fake
IWC Pocket Watch and one to be totally ignored. In taking that fleeting closer
look, my fist instincts were looking to be correct.

Firstly the shape of this case. I'd personally never seen an IWC in a case
like this.

as well as the case back appeared to be stamped rather crudely with some
"hieroglyphics" of sorts.

Then secondly this for sure was not a gold watch. I was not sure which metal
it may be, but clearly one could see that the plating was already flaking off
on the crown bow and besides, look at that weird crown on the watch. Never
seen something like that either on an IWC Pocket Watch.

And last but not least - the 100% give away to me that this was a fake
timepiece was clear to see. The inside case back bore what was definitely a
very fake IWC logo. Not only was it way to large (I had never seen the IWC
Probus Scafusia logo the size of a small button on any watch. If anything, I
had always been impressed with the tiny detail in the small IWC Probus
Scafusia logo's that they did use on their watches. No bigger than 3mm on
average and very precise.

And to add insult to injury, there it was in plain sight : Metal - Plaque
or Lamine - 20 Microns

No doubt about it, a fake. Now, we were of course aware of the risks involved
in landing up with a fake watch out of Bulgaria and indeed Tonny and others
had warned about this phenomenon already some 12 years previously.

[Fake Watches from Bulgaria](/t/the-first-fake-

ingenieurs-spottedbeware/19504/post/40334/)

But those were wrist watches, and here clearly was the first real fake pocket
watch out of Bulgaria. Least ways, in my humble opinion.

However, the movement looked both legitimate and to be in good shape and I
thought that given not many of these Cal. 97's appear on the market, that if I
could secure it cheaply, it would be good to have for spares parts.

So, just before I shut down for the night, I made a low but fair offer on the
watch. Whereby, I wrote the seller a message informing him of my dismay at his
audacity to be offering this watch for such a ridiculously expensive price,
and that primarily the only reason I'd even consider an offer here was for the
movement as spare parts.

Now typically, I fall asleep within 5 minutes of putting my head down.
However, that night I could not sleep. I kept thinking (or was it dreaming)
that maybe this watch was real and not a fake. Something special? Doubting
that someone would bother to assemble a fake pocket watch. I tossed and
turned, I could not sleep.

Then the alarm went, and it was the usual rush. Check-out at the hotel, brave
the crazy traffic in Budapest to the airport, rush to check-in, run for the
gate to make it aboard, and finally get to relax a little. Delay ! We missed
the slot and are going to sit another half hour before push back at the Gate.
I use the opportunity to check up on my emails and decide to send our Museum
Curator David Seyffer some pictures of the faux timepiece and ask his opinion
as to why would anyone would even want to assemble a fake IWC Pocket Watch.
Push back, phones off and in-flight mode, and I am asleep before we are even
in the air.

Waking up in Amsterdam to the bump of landing t around 9.20am. Arrival to the
gate, doors open and await your turn to disembark. I wonder if the seller had
seen my offer and responded. Phone on, but no emails from eBay. Then, just as
I am about to leave the plane, the familiar sound of "You have Mail".

It's from a rather concerned Dr. David Seyffer. Was I feeling OK? What state
of mind was I in and what was I thinking even looking at watches like the one
I had shared with him? I could hear David too thinking, Bulgaria of all
places the poor guys lost his mind.

Whew, what a relief to know that I was not losing it - that others more in the
know than I, agreed with me. I'm off the hook.

NOT !!!

By the time I reach the luggage bands I've an email from eBay. The seller
short of words, simply had accepted my offer. Well OK I thought, it's a fake,
but the offer I made was based on fair value for that movement so not too bad.
And after all, if the watch does not arrive, I could always claim from PayPal
(right?). On the train ride home, I completed the transaction by paying in
full for the watch.

That same afternoon I received notification that the seller had shipped the
watch.

Back in the home office that week, and while the watch is in transit, I decide
to take another look at what I had bought.

Well, it turns out that those symbols are non other than the Bulgarian
Alphabet.

And the writing on top of the 6H6 (which we now already know is not 6H6 but
rather BHB), appears to be Bulgarian as well.

So I sent out some feelers to folk who I thought may be able to read it and
they came back and sayd it translates to: Society Balgarska narodna
banka (where the H in BHB is an N) standing for National Bank of Bulgaria
( Българска народна банка )

I then informed David Seyffer that I had actually bought this watch and of my
findings to the text on the cases. I also shared the case serial numbers with
him. He came back and said that the case was not IWC and asked if I had the
movement serial number as this was not clear on the pictures.

The watch arrived and I confirmed both serial numbers to David. This resulted
in him reverting back to me as follows: " That is very interesting indeed;
the movement was sold December 30th 1946 to the Bulgarian National Bank.
The case is described as " plaque lun. 20 micrones or juane " and was
made by Fab. Boites S.A. Biennes.

He further wrote me, that the watch is then evidence that IWC sold after the
second world war such watches to Bulgaria being under communist rule in that
period, and that even though the case is not of the usual high quality finish
as it should be for an IWC Pocket Watch, that it was interesting that IWC sold
them to Bulgaria saying that after 1945 IWC like all other Brands in
Switzerland had to sell as best they could.

David told me too, that nobody prior to this in Schaffhausen (not even Mr.
King and Mr. Meiss) knew or were aware about "plaque" cases on IWC Pocket
Watches and that he recalled Mr. King giving him a mouthfull some 10 years
previously, when he dared to mention the possibility. "IWC never did Plaque
!"

Subsequent to me finding this watch Tonny told me that he had seen them
offered for sale before, these plated "plaque" timepieces.

And so we see folks, no matter what; be it in the case of Tonnys ' watch
with a lesser quality movement in a higher quality case or in this case a very
high quality movement is a less quality case, it's all 100% Probus
Scafusia.

So yes, in the eyes of this collector it 's an Absolute YES - those Quartz
watches are an integral part of IWC history and legacy and Tonny's two pieces
are truely deserving of a place in the Virtual Museum.

"History is often determined by the unexpected".

Is this not what is happening at this very moment? I want to quote from an
article : 'The Illustrious Homberger Family and IWC ' ( H.J. July 2018).

.......'Then an unknown and unexpected feature crept into Swiss horology : the
arrival of electronic watches. First came the electronic tuning fork
movements, followed by by quartz. The Swiss, experts in mechanical watchmaking
for over a century, were now confronted with a potential threat: an extremely
accurate watch made in a total different way. A peculiar concept had settled
in the minds of some Swiss watch manufacturers : the more accurate a watch is,
the more epensive it is to make it. While this is true for a mechanical watch,
the future would teach that by around 1985, a quarz movement could be produced
for 10 US dollars per piece. This misconception, but predominantly the
reservation against investment in new technology and personnel, enabled
companies at the other end of the world to develop and produce quartz watches
without any noteworthy competition from the country where mechanical
watchmaking was the main industrial core business. Hans-Ernst Homberger
recognised the danger and in 1968 he stated . we have to create more
opportunity for the electronic watch as by the year 2000 the customer expects
that his watch will not deviate more than a hundredth of a second per day.
Japan produced between 1978 and 1985 800 million of quartz watches. This
tsunami decreased the number of workers in the Swiss watch industry from
90,000 to 30,000 and number of companies from 1,600 to 600. Also IWC was
struck by a financial disaster and the banks were reluctant to provide loans.
Their comment : we have to realise that the mechanical watch is dead'.......

Adrian,

(alwaysiwc)

Thank You Tonny

I love the "mechanics" of Beta movement. Especially the terminals, wiring and
electronic circuitry.

Have to add to these obscure pieces.

Here's my silver ref. 5810 originally sold in 1979. Only 103 pieces were made
in silver.

The movement is a cal. 2405.

/Anders

A very rare bird !

What's interesting here is the fact that the case is not designed to look
1970's modern but rather to look like the pocket watches of years gone by.

Extremely rare Anders, I have never seen it even not in the old catalogues.

Adrian,

(alwaysiwc).

The Quartz c.2001 and the c.2002 are beside the tuning fork c.150 and c.160
the watches showing most visible the flow of the time.

The Quartz movements make a little bit fewer steps per second 256 Hz (8192 :
32), compare to 300 Hz of the c.150/160.

The classification of the Beta 21 movements is quite difficult as moste of
them got newer "modules". I do not have the over view which ones are the most
original ones.

The funny thin is, at the beginning they had a 4 digit serial number. Here a
sample

I hope someone has an overview of the versions of the trimmer and electronic
versions. (left side of the picture)

In my picture, this part is not, of the one of the first version, but the
movement it self is an early one (#3260)

regards

watch77

What a neat Quartz movement - and this informative post shows how little I
actually know of these Beta Quartz movements.

A selection of Quartz pocket watches you find in the "1982 Band 1 Saemtliche
Taschenuhren" catalog...

I think I have seen this watch in a IWC catalog, but actually I cant find this
pictures again....

regards

watch77

It is an early pocket watch with Quartz-Movement... Finally found in a
Catalog....

As most Quartz PW and 58xx Reference here Ref. 5810

As it is not in the 1981 and 1982 Catalog you need to search in earlier
ones...

I think the Cal 2405 ist the first Movement used by IWC with stepper motor
(without the "mechanical" divider), making this "odd" timi discrimination to 1
second steps....

Yeah, that's mine!

Any chance you could email me a copy of that sheet?

/Anders

Absolutely great research Watch77 !

Now Anders, can sleep better at night knowing his quartz watch is 100% genuine
"Probus Scafusia"

Well Mark,

That I knew, so my sleep wasn't disturbed ;-)

But never saw that dealer sheet before.

/Anders