• Mr. Tonny Bertelootpanorama_fish_eye

    Member since: 28/10/2002
    5 years

    As some of you know, I am collecting pocketwatches, IWC only.

    Far from saying that my collection is a museum collection but I am proud to
    have found some nice and rare pieces over time.

    Some of the pocketwatches are common, easy to find on the market, sometimes in
    better condition than mine, but some I have are gems.

    So in these crazy times, as the museum in Schaffhausen is closed, why not open
    one here on the forum.

    As long as the museum is closed, I will post here daily a pocketwatch from my
    collection.

    I hope I don't run out of pieces before the virus is beaten. Fingers crossed
    for all of us.

    I will post them in a random order, with some comments, feel free to join.

    Keep safe all.

    DAY 44, cal 67, black dial.

    After the very special Scarabaeus Fuchs yesterday, today a more common one,
    allthough common might not be the right word.

    Have you ever noticed that there are very few IWC pocketwatches with a black
    dial ? I only have a few in my collection, and this cal 67 is one of them.

    It is from 1937, has a steel case and black dial with luminous hands and
    numerals.

    When you see these for sale, most of the time they have the adverb "military".

    They are even presented like that, the first picture is the watch how it was
    presented by the seller. To my knowledge, these watches are not military.

    But nevertheless interesting to have in the collection, rare dial and luminous
    hands, works for me.

  • 8541panorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 20/09/2007
    5 years

    As Tonny writes, there are not too many black dialed IWC pocket watches
    out there. They do exists, and probably, the last black dialed IWC pocket
    watch to leave Schaffhsausen was the Ingenieur SL pocket watch ref. 5215.

    Rare enough that even Adrian was asking this question somne 16 years ago :
    Post by Adrian

    I am sure, that other forum members will post there examples here too.

    However, life is not always Black or White...

    The Watch

    The watch I wish to share with you here today, to compliment Tonny's
    magnificent black dialed Calibre 67 is like Tonny's pocket watch, fitted with
    a Cal. 67 movement, however it is one with an even rarer dial.

    This watch has a truly amazing dial finished in what can best be described as
    "burnt terracotta' in color.

    It's very difficult to capture this dials pure color - sometimes almost shiny
    copper at other times a total other shade.

    The watch has blued steeled hands that compliment the dial nicely.

    The movement is a Cal. 67 with no extra finishing. Look again at Tonny's
    movement it has Geneva Striping - missing on this movement of mine.

    The case is made of Staybrite steel and has a nice riffled edge to it.

    Another intresting aspect of this watch is that it bears an assize stamp on
    the crown neck, just below the actual crown. Seen here below circled in green.
    Clepsydra did much research into
    this stamp applied by the Government of Portugal and hopefully he will tell us
    more.

    This watch was sold by Schaffhausen to a Portuguese retailer in September 1943
    - so the stamp is expected.

    I do believe this dial to be very rare.

    Best regards
    Mark

  • Benpanorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 05/05/2008
    5 years

    Tonny, I remember when you acquired this one and mentioned that if you ever
    wanted to sell, I would be interested. However, I could not wait, and when I
    saw another available, the black-dialed cal 67 became my first IWC pocket
    watch...

    Best regards
    Ben
    farm5.staticflickr.com/4590/39191395621_539b63622d_b.jpg

  • ADRIAN van der Meijdenpanorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 23/03/2001
    5 years

    The colour of dials.

    In a few days we have seen so many differently coloured dials : white
    enamel,
    greenish coated KM 67, silver sun pattern Fuchs, gold sun pattern Fuchs, black
    cal. 76 ( Radium loaded), terra cotta brown cal. 67 but how about...... a blue
    dial ?

    Of this pocket watch, I do not know the reference number. Tonny was with me
    when I bought it in Italy many years ago. It has never been issued in Europe
    but was exclusively for the Japanese market. It has a cal. 95 movement and the
    case is made of white gold with a so called 'bark' structure. As you can see
    the dial is blue and not completely flat. It is made from mother-of
    -pearl.How
    rare can an IWC pocket watch be?

    Regards,

    Adrian,

    (alwaysiwc).

  • 8541panorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 20/09/2007
    5 years

    Blue mother of pearl ... absolutely stunning.

    Best regards
    Mark

  • Mr. Hans-Georg Aberlepanorama_fish_eye
    Insider 〚✅〛

    Member since: 27/03/2001
    5 years

    ^Probably the Cal. 67 with black dial ist not so rare. Also i my collection is
    the same watch from 1938. It was told that these watches were interesting for
    the officer-staff of the german army, but no official watches.So most of these
    were sold to Germany.

  • Mark Flemingerpanorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 07/07/2013
    5 years

    Really nice watches today gentlemen :o)

  • Roman Belovpanorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 03/02/2009
    5 years

    My watch has luminous hands, but no stuff at numbers. Delivered in year 1941.

    MfG, Roman
    @watch__cat
    KM/WWW/Mk.11/666/3508/9239/322712/811/3531/5442/5448/PD etc.

  • HEBEpanorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 05/01/2002
    5 years

    Not for mil. use, but black dial ....

  • 8541panorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 20/09/2007
    5 years

    Hebe, exact same staybrite steel case as the C.67 I show here above.
    However, again I note your movements too is finished with Geneva Striping,
    where mine is not.

    Best regards
    Mark

  • Clepsydrahelp_outline
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 04/08/2001
    5 years

    Hi Mark. I did write an article that was published in The Journal of the
    British Horological Institute about the Armadillo hallmark on steel watches
    imported into Portugal. The purpose of this hallmark was to confirm the
    importation tax had been paid, which was very high to protect a local case
    industry, which BTW did not survive.

    The article focused on the hallmark on the Ref 325s imported into Portugal to
    differentiate from the Ref 325 that went to Eastern Europe.

    The article was posted in this forum by Michael Friedberg and must be here
    somewhere but I can't find it.

    Anyone interested in this arcane issue please dive in.

    Found it. Thanks Mark.

    www.iwcforum.com/IWC.pdf

    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause
    and reflect. Samuel L Clemens a.k.a. Mark Twain

  • HEBEpanorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 05/01/2002
    5 years

    A cal. 67 Ébauche and all parts for a complete cal. 67. The set was probably
    intended for a school watch ?!

  • 8541panorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 20/09/2007
    5 years

    Oh wow HEBE, that's amazing. Is that the case from your black dialed piece,
    or a separate spare case?

    Best regards
    Mark

  • Mark Flemingerpanorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 07/07/2013
    5 years

    Every day these posts get better and better with new fascinating information
    added.

    Thank You Antonio and Heiko for today's additions!

  • HEBEpanorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 05/01/2002
    5 years

    @Mark => Spare case.

    @all =>

    Those military watches with radium luminous material are still radio active,
    because the half-life of radium is approximately 1600 years.
    Especially particles of the luminous materials are very dangerous when they
    get into the body and the radon gas into the watch as well. So, I open thes
    watch only outside the house.

    This is a watch from the 40s with radium luminous material, which is still
    very well preserved.

  • Mr. Ralph Ehrismannpanorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 28/03/2001
    5 years

    The highly decorative pocket watches of the 1970/80 years are very
    interesting. Due to the gemstones or the heavy gold cases, the are sold at
    quite high prices.

    Could never get one of this "gems". Still seeking for an Ref. 5425 too

    regards

    watch77

    www.vintage-iwc.ch/bilder/w77_kkk.jpg

    Time flies, Passion stays !

  • Mr. Hans-Georg Aberlepanorama_fish_eye
    Insider 〚✅〛

    Member since: 27/03/2001
    5 years

    Yes Ralph, that is one of the most amazing new lepines of IWC. Sorry, but
    thepicture
    does not show one of my collection.

    As far as I know the last of this watch was sold Dec. 15th 2010 for "only"
    3833 €, wait for your next chance and good luck!

  • 8541panorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 20/09/2007
    5 years

    What movement (any pictures) lies within this exotic temperature controlled
    beast of a timepiece?

    Best regards
    Mark

  • ADRIAN van der Meijdenpanorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 23/03/2001
    5 years

    This is an amazing watch for 3 reasons :

    It has no hour hand as all IWC pocket watches have. The hour is readable on a
    sub dial.

    The shape of the minute is unique and never used on whatever IWC.

    The temperature at 6 oclock is unique as well. It works through a metal spiral
    ( just like a balance spring). One end is fixed, the other connected to the
    axis of thevisible hand at 6 o'clock. A shift in temperature makes the spiral
    expand or shrink. this is transferred to the hand.

    A marvel of a watch.

    Adrian,

    (alwaysiwc).

  • skandpanorama_fish_eye
    Apprentice

    Member since: 12/05/2023
    6 months

    Hello.
    I have two IWC cal 67 pocket watches. One of them has two covers with the same serial numbers and is made of some material other than steel. The second one is steel with one lid and the same dial. Can you tell me something about them?

  • ADRIAN van der Meijdenpanorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 23/03/2001
    6 months

    Dear Skand,

    The watch with 2 covers has a steel back lid and a so called dust cover.

    Not all of the cal. 67 watches had a dust cover, an extra protection to invading dirt.

    The case nr. is directing to the 1930ies and so do the dials of both timepieces

    Cal 67 was also an accurate and sturdy watch with a military career: it was used during WW II on German war ships and after the war on the ships of the German Federal Navy, called the Bundesmarine as a navigation tool and as a mechanical back up for quartz and electrcal watches on board. However, I do not think that your watches were military as the case numbers of them are usually above 1 million and their backlids show military stamps, if not polished out.

    Regards,

    Adrian,

    (alwaysiwc).

  • skandpanorama_fish_eye
    Apprentice

    Member since: 12/05/2023
    6 months

    Dear Adrian.

    Thank you for your reply. I don't care if they are military watches, they are nice and that makes me happy. I already have three pocket watches and three IWC wristwatches

  • 8541panorama_fish_eye
    Master 〚✅〛

    Member since: 20/09/2007
    6 months

    Indeed : excellent timepieces. I believe Adrian's reference to these movements also being found back in some military watches, was intended in the first place to highlight the fact that they are robust and accurate movements and secondly that they may have been produced for the military. Only case and movement serial number checks can ascertain that last fact.

    Either way - two magnificent watches. Enjoy

    Best regards
    Mark