• 14 May 2020, 5:21 p.m.

    As some of you know, I am collecting pocketwatches, IWC only.

    Far from saying that my collection is a museum collection but I am proud to
    have found some nice and rare pieces over time.

    Some of the pocketwatches are common, easy to find on the market, sometimes in
    better condition than mine, but some I have are gems.

    So in these crazy times, as the museum in Schaffhausen is closed, why not open
    one here on the forum.

    As long as the museum is closed, I will post here daily a pocketwatch from my
    collection.

    I hope I don't run out of pieces before the virus is beaten. Fingers crossed
    for all of us.

    I will post them in a random order, with some comments, feel free to join.

    Keep safe all.

    DAY 54, cal 24 Seeland

    Yesterday we had a beautiful calibre in a beautiful case, today is a bit if a
    difference.

    The next watch in the series a my cal 24 Seeland, in a silver case.

    This is the type of watch that you not would look at when you saw it at a flee
    market, it is smaller than the usual old IWC pocketwatchesn the dial is
    unsigned, the silver case is nice, but not spectalular...But you would be
    wrong to pass on a historical important watch .

    These are rare finds , dating from the 1870's, a period that is a bit an
    obscure period in the history of IWC, no records, discussions on the numbering
    of the movement types...

    But an interesting period and I do hope that the research is being done by
    some people will result in a publication soon.

    I found in the archives a very interesting post and I would like to copy here
    the beginning of the post by David Boettcher :

    "

    IWC "Seeland" watches were made during the period when IWC was under the
    control of of Frederic Frank Seeland, a US citizen who was appointed to manage
    the IWC factory in October 1876, after the first company, founded by F.A.
    Jones, had gone bankrupt. Dr. R. Grieshaber was president, and Johann
    Rauschenbach was managing director. Initially all seemed to go well under
    Seeland's management and he was left alone to run the business. Seeland
    introduced watch calibres that were cheaper to make than the Jones calibres.
    Profits apparently soared, and the workforce increased. But Seeland was faking
    the profits by overstating the value of stock on hand. This came to light
    during the summer of 1879 when Seeland with his family suddenly and secretly
    left Schaffenhausen for America just before the stock take was due. A stock
    take by Rauschenbach and the factory foreman revealed that the stock on hand
    was worth a lot less than Seeland had stated the previous year, and the
    company had actually been losing money and was faced with a substantial debt.
    The IWC company went into bankruptcy for a second time, and Seeland was
    sentenced in his absence to three weeks in prison.

    Most of the IWC Seeland watches were sold in the UK, and their cases have UK
    hallmarks."

    The rest of the post can be found here

    I am lucky to have 3 full plate Seelands in my collection, the other two will
    be shown some time later in the series ( another cal 24 and a cal 25 )

    I also have the cal 22, cal 23, but these could be qualified not as Seeland
    movements, more on that later.

  • Master
    14 May 2020, 5:21 p.m.

    - oh wow a Seeland.

    There is a whole lot of history in these Seeland pieces, and the watch I chose
    today to share with you to compliment Tonny's fantastic Seeland has been
    published by me before. At the time I dedicated it to my good friend Giovanni
    and that dedication stays in place.

    'With updates here and there, here is the story of this Seeland in my
    collection.

    THIS POST DEDICATED TO MY FRIEND AND FELLOW IWC COLLECTOR
    - GIOVANNI AMBROGIO
    -

    • Giovanni absolutely enjoyed the restoration projects and stories behind them, and was himself beginning under the watchful eye of Thomas Konig to take a serious liking to the history of IWC and it's heritage.

    Gio - this one for you my friend!

    The Watch

    Some time back, I came across this bare movement up for sale in the UK, which
    intrigued me for a number of reasons.

    As you can see, it was not branded IWC on the dial, but instead carried the
    letters L-M-S

    Dial Side

    farm2.staticflickr.com/1666/25220008281_46d26540e2_o.jpg"]

    However, when studying the movement side, it certainly looked to me to be very
    similar to a Cal.24 key wind/key set movement to me.

    Movement Side

    However, when comparing to some known watches with this calibre, there
    appeared to be a "ring" around the main plate - and this was something I had
    not seen before. As can also be seen in this photo, someone had also rather
    crudely filed away a chamfer on two sides in this ring - probably in some
    previous attempt to fit it into a case.

    All in all it did not look in too good a shape - but still, I was convinced it
    was an IWC movement, and probably worth saving. So I secured it.

    Once arrived, I rushed it into the watchmakers atelier - "can it be saved".

    Now of course, Mr. Jeroen Blonk is IWC certified - so if he says no, it no!

    I begged and I pleaded - "Please maestro save this movement!"

    farm9.staticflickr.com/8295/8012794538_5e92d6f162_h.jpg

    He hummed and he hah 'd - "the balance seems good"....

    "OK" I said "Lets do It" - Project LMS was born.

    So we stripped her down

    The same serial number 79043 that was engraved on the rear, was also stamped
    on the dial side.

    We then took a good look at that outer ring. To both myself and the watchmaker
    it was apparent that it was original - meaning, that the working and fit of it
    was such, that we were both convinced it could only have been manufactured and
    fitted at the manufacture.

    Note the fixing pins

    So whilst my watchmaker, an IWC trained and certified craftsman continued to
    work on restoring the movement, I went in search of a correct period case. The
    other single Cal.24 I had in my collection at the time, had a UK hallmarked
    Sterling Silver case, so it was off to the UK I went, to locate a suitable
    case.

    Now these key wind/key set cases are indeed immaculate if not complex pieces
    of engineering as both the front and the back need to hinge open. The front to
    set the time [which is done by using the winding key placed over the hands
    pinion (which has a 1.4mm square shaft)and advancing the hands until the
    desired time is reached].

    I found a number of cases - but they were all the same size as the case on my
    existing watch - and this movement with it's outer ring was larger, at 19'
    ligne. Someone suggested to simply discard the ring and to mount it in the
    same size, smaller cases. However, I was adamant - this ring needed to be
    there as it was original. So my search continued and finally this case was
    located.

    Once my watchmaker confirmed that he believed the movement would fit this
    newer larger case, the bare striped down main plate, and now lose outer ring
    were sent BACK TO THE UK to my case-maker. We also removed from the intact and
    complete Cal. 24 watch, the tiny little brass tube that serves as a key guide
    for the winding key so that Mr. Adam Phillips, who is a master of fine
    engineering, would have an example to work off - as this movement was missing
    the key guide.

    Mr. Phillips then engineered three main fixes/components.

    • The outer brass ring was re-made from scratch to the exact same dimensions and fitted to the case hinge
    • He fabricated from scratch the missing key guide (as per the original example we sent)
    • He silver soldered and closed the key hole in the back inner cover of the case, and remade the hole in the correct location to be able to wind the Cal.24.

    Key Guide and Re-Located Winding Hole

    The case, bare plate (now fitted with the new key guide)were returned to the
    Netherlands, and Jeroen painstakingly and professionally finished the
    restoration.

    I collected the watch today, and am overjoyed with the results.

    As can be seen, I decided to clean the dial - but left the hand painted
    letters LMS in place on the otherwise pristine enamel dial. This to clearly
    distinguish the watch from the (now) other 2 similar watches in my colection.

    The movement has a new lease of life, and the watch runs like (sic) clockwork!

    "https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1633/25021693590_606c74d2cb_b.jpg"

    The re-located Key Winding Hole, with the new Key Guide visible

    And then a rear case view

    This watch now joins it's fellow period watches in a side by side mode, and is
    where it belongs - to be able to proudly show the time for the next 140 plus
    years...

    So now that you've read this small saga of a restoration - you must be asking,
    why go to all that trouble when you already have two of these pieces in your
    collection, it's just a humble little Cal.24 !!!

    Well is it?

    So now you need to wait for PART II of this story Ladies and Gents. The
    story behind the story...

    Calling on the our Seeland expert Alan Myers to add the second part of this
    legacy of this movement/watch.

  • Connoisseur
    14 May 2020, 6:51 p.m.

    This is indeed a calibre 24, 18 ligne Seeland movement. IWC sold a number of
    these movements in larger cases equivalent to 19 ligne. They are recorded in
    the sales ledgers as 19 ligne, but are actualy 18 ligne movements with an
    enlargement ring. Although this is a Seeland movement it was sold during the
    Rauschenbach-Vogel period around 1880.

    Hope this information helps,

    Alan

  • Master
    14 May 2020, 8:10 p.m.

    Beautiful watch Tonny and fabulous restoration Mark!

    Now in Part II - I feel a Railway Story coming along........

  • Master
    14 May 2020, 8:18 p.m.

    Oh,oh...

    Let me make an educated guess...

    In Part 2, Mark will probably tell about the logo on the dial : L.M.S ( which
    is the abreviation of 'Levinsohn. Mark. Saga'.)

    I am drooling,

    Adrian,

    (alwaysiwc)

  • Master
    14 May 2020, 9:16 p.m.

    "L.M.S ( which is the abreviation of 'Levinsohn. Mark. Saga'.)"

    Good one Adrian :o)

  • Master
    14 May 2020, 9:24 p.m.

    To all presenting watches here (including Tonny).

    You show us many interesting pieces. Due to this posts I know alt least where
    all the interesting pieces "disappeard"

    I planned (tried) go buy in auctions ;-)

    Reagrds

    Ralph

  • Master
    14 May 2020, 10:08 p.m.

    I planned (tried) go buy in auctions ;-)

    Ralph,

    As Mark Levinsohn would say........ "You snooze - You Loose"

  • Master
    14 May 2020, 10:22 p.m.

    Most time it was not a a problem of the "snooze" but the pocket at the right
    back (or the mind) which was limiting the "way" to the watch. For me the real
    watch buying fun is to get an interesting watch for my personally defined
    "reasonable price"

    I wish you much fun hunting pocket watches....

    (but please keep of my "way" ;-) ;-) )

    Regards

    Ralph

  • Master
    15 May 2020, 11:08 a.m.

    Watch77, I agree 100% with you. I wish too that a Tonny stays out the way :-)