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VIRTUAL POCKET WATCH MUSEUM DAY 68, Elgin cal 38

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    Moderator
    28 May 2020, 6:52 p.m.
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    As some of you know, I am collecting pocketwatches, IWC only.

    Far from saying that my collection is a museum collection but I am proud to
    have found some nice and rare pieces over time.

    Some of the pocketwatches are common, easy to find on the market, sometimes in
    better condition than mine, but some I have are gems.

    So in these crazy times, as the museum in Schaffhausen is closed, why not open
    one here on the forum.

    As long as the museum is closed, I will post here daily a pocketwatch from my
    collection.

    I hope I don't run out of pieces before the virus is beaten. Fingers crossed
    for all of us.

    I will post them in a random order, with some comments, feel free to join.

    Keep safe all.

    DAY 68, Elgin cal 38

    Today another Elgin movement, the cal 38. A rare one to find, I haven't seen
    many around ( maybe I look in the wrong places, that is also possible ;) )

    And it is a watch that can confuse a collector, it is a regular pocketwatch
    with hands and yet when you open it, it looks like the Pallweber I showed
    yesterday. There once was a discussion that these were converted Pallwebers
    calibres, but this is not correct. The cal 38 was always made as an analogue
    watch.

    The case number is 539, the cal number is hidden under the dial. But I guess I
    could date it around 1885.

    The case is in 14K gold, the inner cover like in many pocketwatches in metal,
    and I see two letters "JD" on it, no clue what they mean, maybe the case
    maker.

    I am happy to have this cal 38 in my collection next to the Pallwebers, it is
    also a part of the ( not so good known ) history of IWC in the 1880's.

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    Master
    28 May 2020, 6:53 p.m.
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    Tonights post dedicated to my brother-in-law, Ton who is trying to know more
    about key wind / key set.

    Tonny posts today a rare watch and a calibre that I do not have in my
    collection. Also one which we Collectors refer to as "an oldie".

    The Watch

    IN order to compliment Tonnys watch today, I share here a relativly new comer
    / addition to my Collection.

    When one sees the case and the dial with assosiated hands we see too, that its
    "an Oldie".

    Compare Tonny's hands on his rare Cal. 38 here below on the left with that of
    my rare pocket watch.Whilst the hands are of a similar style, when one looks
    to the centre of the dial, you can see on my watch on the right, the square
    shank of the hour and minute hands - used to set the time using a key - where,
    Tonny's watch on the left has a crown, used to both wind the watch, as well as
    set the time by depressing the small pin you see to the right of the crown
    stem.

    But what makes the watch a rare find? Why would I want this watch in my
    Collection?

    Well, lets agree, it's not for the blue screw and there is no Probus Scafusia
    trademark stamp in the watch either.

    But, there is this very strange little trademark stamp, on the movement.

    If one saw just this on a movement, then surely the watch has nothing to do
    with Schaffhuasen?

    Fortunately there is also this engraved on the movement.

    And when we see the bigger picture....

    So, there is a whole lot to tell here about the 3-pillar, 20 ligne (so large)
    movement in this watch but out of courtesy to the wise men who did the reseach
    and are about to publish the book (on these movements), I will leave the honor
    here for them to add the "story" or some additional information about what we
    see here, in this rare watch that was sold by IWC Schaffhausen.

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    Master
    28 May 2020, 7:55 p.m.
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    One of the rarest Tonny.

    Many years ago such watch was offered by a London dealer to Friedrich Wagener.

    It was not depicted in the referenc books of Meis, Toelke and King. Some
    considered it to be a marriage watch but Wagener called it the 'missing link'
    : the transition watch between the digital Pallweber and the analog pocket
    watch. Friedrich took a fight to London and had to pay 2000 Swiss Francs for
    it.

    Great find,

    Adrian,

    (alwaysiwc)

    P.S. It appears that the collector was not Friedrich Wagener but Werner
    Berghaus.

    Here is the article, unfortunately only in German language.

    Werner Berghaus could find among the collectors of those days, 4 cal. 38 only.

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    Master
    28 May 2020, 8:23 p.m.
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    Mark, a stem-wind watch or a key-wind is a world of difference !

    Take a look under the bonnet.

    Adrian,

    (alwaysiwc)

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    Master
    28 May 2020, 8:49 p.m.
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    Indeed of course correct Adrian - and entire world of difference (hence I
    wrote " used to set the time using a key - where,
    Tonny 's watch on the left has a crown, used to both wind the watch, as well
    as set the time "

    The movements are totally different animals. **** To me what is amazing here
    is the relativly few years of time between when these two movement left
    Schaffhausen - yet the very significant diferences.

    I'm confident like you commented on Tonny magnificent rare bird that other
    will shortly comment on my rare (but certainly not as rare as Tonny's
    pocketwatch).

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    Connoisseur
    28 May 2020, 9:52 p.m.
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    Dear Tonny, Mark and Adrian

    The two watches shown are clearly so different as two watches/calibres can be.
    Technicalwise (keywind keyset vs. stem wind stem set), in terms of quality
    (low budget vs. mid range quality), in terms of production methods (industrial
    production vs. artisan production; and probably most forumers will deem the
    wrong one to be industrial poduction), in terms of design strategy (one basic
    design for different calibres vs, stand-alone design), and in terms of
    knowledge available (what will be different, when the book mentioned by Mark
    will be published). What they share is, that were born in a period called the
    "dark ages" of IWC!

    The Cal. 38 was probably built in smaller numbers than the full-plate, but
    today these 6 to 9 types of full-plates which in the past were deemed to be
    fakes are the rarer birds. There is one calibre, we still do not know whether
    we have verified it and another calibre of which only one is known to have
    survived.

    So if someone is keen to master challenges go ahead and try to collect a full
    set of "dark ages" calibres.

    Regards

    Th. Koenig