White Dial Mark 11's --myth or rarity?

Whilst I dont own a MK XI with white dial, have never seen one in real life, will likely never own one and dont have much to weigh in on this discussion, I do have to say it has got me very excited. I purchased my first MK XI about 5 months ago now and promptly put it in for a service. It has been a number of months now back in Schaffhausen and is due back in the next week or so - I cant wait and this thread just reminded me of it :)

Maybe my comment is of minor importance. I just want to say that Thomas Koenig and I went together repeatedly to the UK to investigate military documents about the military IWC watches used in the UK. We therefore visited the library of the Imperial War Museum in London , National Army Museum and the Museum of Technology ( REME : Royal Mechanical and Electric Engineers). Although London has been bombed heavily during WW II it is striking to learn that nearly everything about the war what has been documented during WW II, has been preserved perfectly and all of this is open to the public. If one sits in such library young people try to find what their grandfathers did between 1940-45 and where they were killed and burried. It gave me goose pimples and respect. Needless to say that EVERYTHING after WW II is there too and as we know the IWC Mk 11 is dating from 1948 onwards. Of importance is that NOTHING can be found on the IWC Mk 11 white dial watch. It is therefore that I wrote on 11-12-2009 on MWR Forum :
1.The white dial has not been provided by IWC.
2. The white dial has not been produced by MoD, RAF or any British military organisation.
3. The white dial is an after sales product and it has nothing to do with the original IWC cal.89 watch.
The documented explanation of T. Koenig is of much more value to me than the hearsaying of "vague" persons who cannot be located and who have not left any documented proof in writing.
Just a personal opinion,
Adrian,
(alwaysiwc)

Hi ORT
You said in a previous posting, I think about a Ref 666, that a watch is only original once. You are correct.
This should also apply to military watches but with a slight difference. Military watches, have hard lives, repairs are frequent, and parts may be changed among them. However, the original essential characteristics and original parts must be maintained.
As far as I know, brass being an alloy of copper an zinc, has none of the properties of soft iron to complete the Faraday cage.
A Mark 11 with a brass dial (white or black), that was not manufactured by an approved IWC supplier, and that is not a-magnetic to the degree specified by the MoD, is not a Mark 11.

Not bad Jimmy, :-)
What about this one?

Clep
"A Mark 11 with a brass dial (white or black), that was not manufactured by an approved IWC supplier, and that is not a-magnetic to the degree specified by the MoD, is not a Mark 11".

Were the mid fifties black and white format dials on Omegas military sweep second waterproof offerings (offerings purposefully made up from older stock, devoid of inca in an inca period) executed back in Switzerland? And did the dead surplus dealer follow on the MOD mode of working cause he was a stickler for period correctness in his quest for variety?

Clep
"As far as I know, brass being an alloy of copper an zinc, has none of the properties of soft iron to complete the Faraday cage".

The flying camera device ("What no Inca") is'nt a Mk X1 but i doubt the British MOD are too embarassed about it.....like i said.. once Schaffhausen have been paid.. thier history.

Was Flueckiger the only supplier for Mark's dials?

Thanks Michael, interesting and informative.

FYI. In Armbanduhren Klassic Katalog white dial Mk. 11 was clear indicated as IWC watch:

ORT,
I fear you may be mixing up apples and oranges. First, we are talking about IWC and not Omega and second, the issue being discussed here is the lack of a-magnetic properties of the after-market white dial and not shockproof. The RAF was not going to compromise the fundamental characteristic of this "flight instrument" which was fundamental for the success of military missions. BTW, as I am sure you know, the first batch of 2,400 Mark 11s from 1848 were equipped with cal 89s without Incabloc, cal 89 Angl, apparently to reduce costs. I have one of those, as can be seen in the image below taken the day I got the watch, and before the movement was cleaned.

Hi RC30,
In this world, everybody has the right to say and publish just about whatever they want. That right includes the right of being wrong. That statement in that book is outright wrong.

I fear you may be mixing up apples and oranges. First, we are talking about IWC and not Omega and second, the issue being discussed here is the lack of a-magnetic properties of the after-market white dial and not shockproof. The RAF was not going to compromise the fundamental characteristic of this "flight instrument" which was fundamental for the success of military missions. BTW, as I am sure you know, the first batch of 2,400 Mark 11s from 1848 were equipped with cal 89s without Incabloc, cal 89 Angl, apparently to reduce costs. I have one of those, as can be seen in the image below taken the day I got the watch, and before the movement was cleaned.

Clep.....fear not for me my friend, Omega offerings confirm the military willing to use non inca'd pieces fairly late in the day, the Camera device further compounds this....along with suggesting they were a little bit keen for white dials, even being willing to negotiate Amag properties to acheive thier objective. Whilst you are on the blower (so to speak) have you anything to add to why the white dials are clearly coated and/or what benefit this would provide a dial maker or a second hand goods seller?

MAGISTER DIXIT.

yours is an original dial (I suspect?) but the dial I showed doesn´t look right to me, look at the height of the line where International Watch Co is!.Normaly, as I know it, the letters are just underneath the 11 and the 1. The letters on the one I showed are nearly in line with the 10 and 2.
I have seen another dial where the letters are at the same height but the broadarrow was missing!

I recognise the pictures, they are out of a Crott auction catalogue, and Crott is known for his Fakes/Mistakes...I know, because I bought a dial, thinking as Crott had it in his catalogue, the dial would be kosher!...Big mistake!

You are correct, the dial in my 1948 Mark 11 is authentic.
Regarding the dial in the Mark 11 you posted, I see what you mean, but a better image would help a better evaluation.
That WWW dial is as fake as an eight Dollar bill. Crott has some impressive watches, but these "mistakes" do tarnish their reputation.

Tony, the image I had wasn´t all that good to start with and by croping it, even more so!

I´d be very interested to hear opinions and what everyone thinks of the lettering height/position on this one.

Hi Jimmy,
I was hoping for a better picture. :-) and I got it. :-))
The logo seems to be a fraction of a millimeter to the left, but everything else seems kosher, assuming the dial is made of soft iron.
Could it be a manufacturing deviation that escaped quality control? Or could it be a manufacturing deviation that did NOT escape quality control, but was deemed insignificant, and to be within acceptable parameters?
Let us keep in mind these watches were first and foremost a flight instrument, and functionality was the key word. Perfect symmetry of the manufacturer's logo, much as we love it today, was probably not a first priority. :-)