White Dial Mark 11's --myth or rarity?

I believe that it was established that the dial in the "white dial" Mark 11 was made of brass and not of soft iron. That being the case, the Farady cage is not complete and Mark 11s with the white dial are not a-magnetic, its main MoD requirement.
Also, white second hand against a white background reduces readability, another key MoD requirement.
The watch may have been originally a Mark 11, but it is no more, imho.

I did not know that the white dials on the IWC pilots watches were so rare.
I have a Mark XVI that has a white face and a brown strap.
Is it rare?

Clep....do the hands on Michaels highlighted watch look original to the dial, if they're not then it looks like somebodies added thier own interpretation...which of course would not render the dial incorrect.Once the military have paid Schaffhausen then the watch is thiers n'more.

MOD requrments change over time, the half brass, half iron Hamilton dial is an intresting watch....imh.

I have a sneaky feeling these words belong to Mr. Dowling.....

' Many, many years ago, when I used to buy Mk XIs and MilSubs in boxes of 20 from the MoD auctions, I would come across 1 white MkXI every so often, but because I had also bought a lot of parts (cases, dials, hands & mvt parts) I just swapped them out & threw away the white dials'.

'So there certainly were some white dial Mk XIs, but they looked really crappy, so my assumption always was that they were MoD jobs, not Schaffhausen work'.

I;ve another sneaky feeling the situation was not unique to him.

I agree that the "white dial for the ground crew" seems a contrived way to explain the color variation, but I'm no expert. Thanks for reposting a link to the article, Michael. I had not read that one and found it an interesting investigation.

Good lord, I thought this was a subject that had been cleared up by now. From what I remember, a watch dealer bought a lot from an MoD auction in 1984?,consisting of
complete and uncomplete watches, with and without dials. He had dials made in black and in white for variety!
At the moment I have this to offer;

From the article in the Horological Journal, Man is not Lost...Jan.2004...written by Matthias Christian, Thomas Koenig and Greg Steer

Somewhere in the anals of my PC I have the name of the dealer that bought these watches, I´ll look for the article.

Regards

Jimmy

I knew I had it somewhere ;-)

[b]White dial Mk. 11
Someone stood up:

The dealer, who bought a batch of Mk. 11 at the MoD surplus auctions without dial, was a guy named Briggs. He had the dials made by David Bill & Sons, a company which at least some years ago was still in existence.

Most of the dials were white, but to have some variety he ordered some in black as well.

So a complete post-military-use production.

And as there was no mil spec to cope with, the dials were made of brass instead of soft iron.

Regards

Th. Koenig

Koenig[/b]

The man himself said it!

Regards

Jimmy

PS. here is the link to the whole article; Man is not lost

'From the article in the Horological Journal, Man is not Lost...Jan.2004...written by Matthias Christian, Thomas Koenig and Greg Steer'

You sound like you've found the bible there Jimmy, does it say why the dials are not actually white or what actual amag rating a 1mm coated brass dial will attain?

There was really no need to "fabricate" white dials for cases and movements of the Mark 11s without dial, and to come with cockamamie stories to justify them. There are still some authentic dials in the secondary market. They may not be perfect, but are better than the fake white dials. BTW, there also fake black dials. They are both fake Mark 11s, and not collectible imo.

There wont be any amag protection at all on the brass dials, why should they, since the watches had no further military use, it didn´t matter what the material was, that was used on the newly made dials!

Regards

Jimmy

Here is an old link to another board, where the white dialed IWC is being discussed.
T. Koenig, Adrian v.d. Meijden, and another few learned people, who know what they were taking about! White dialed IWC Mk 11

Regards

Jimmy

Nice dial Tony,but what do you say to this one?

'Since the watches had no further military use, it didn´t matter what the material was that was used on the newly made dials'!

Dont worry yourself about further uses Jimmy, do you contacts/articles state the amag rating of a coated 1mm brass dial?

There wont be any amag protection at all on the brass dials, why should they, since the watches had no further military use, it didn´t matter what the material was, that was used on the newly made dials!

Regards

Jimmy

'There wont be any amag protection at all on the brass dials'

Do your articles state what the dead surplus dealer coated these dials with amd/or why?

Whilst I dont own a MK XI with white dial, have never seen one in real life, will likely never own one and dont have much to weigh in on this discussion, I do have to say it has got me very excited. I purchased my first MK XI about 5 months ago now and promptly put it in for a service. It has been a number of months now back in Schaffhausen and is due back in the next week or so - I cant wait and this thread just reminded me of it :)