Why did IWC Botch the Ingenieur?

I realize this is a heavily moderated forum, but I just have to say, IWC botched the Ingenieur when they resdesigned it last year.  It's been a year since the new Ingenieur was unveiled, and it amazingly has all but disappeared from watch forums, blogs, enthusiast boards, etc., since the redesign.  No one talks about the new ones, at all, like they don't exist.  

The new one is a handsome piece, but doesn't feel like an Ingenieur.  They even removed the iconic Ingenieur logo from the dial, replacing it with the mundane "automatic" text.

(Old on the left, new on the right):

Maybe it's just part of market positioning, to move the Ingenieur away from collectors and towards the mass market as an alternative to a Rolex Explorer 1.  Who knows, but the new Ingenieur not only abandons the Genta design, but isn't faithful to the 666 design it pretends to resurrect.

But if you're listening, IWC, you had a great piece, one of the Genta-inspired trio with the AP Royal Oak and PP Nautilus, but the only one of them that didn't break the bank.  Ohers have jumped into the fray to fill the gaping hole you left, like Girard Perrageux's Laureato and the Zenith Defy Classic, as well as the VC Overseas redesign, all of them offering integrated bracelet steel sports watches with the distinctive styling cues of the previous model Ingenieirs.  Maybe one day you'll restore this watch to its former glory.

Here are my two Ingenieur watches: the titanium AMG on the bracelet, Genta inspired, and the limited edition Vintage Collection, inspired by the first Ingenieur.

i guess, IWC tried everything with the Genta design, as far as I know it never was a success. The Vintage Collection version was, again as far as I know, rather successful within the Vintage Collection, getting a few limited editions. But the whole Vintage Collection was discontinued after a few years, not a sign of success.

The current Ingenieur comes quite close to the Vintage Collection version. A bit bland, but not bad. I am quite sure though, that not bad is not good enough, certainly in the luxury segment: why buy a "not bad" watch if there is a "quite good" watch somewhere else? But to me it is not evident that, when fora don't write about a watch, that watch is a disaster commercially, quite the opposite may be true. Hardly anybody writes about the Portofino Automatic, still, it is, or was, a money maker. Hardly anybody writes about Longines watches, but this brand is huge, huge! Maybe the new Ingenieur looks at that segment of the market? That, to me, would be a master stroke.

Kind regards,
Paul

I agree the Genta style was sooo much nicer!  Well here is mine.. if I can get my hands on the Big Ingenieur..... I will be happy!

I would have to agree, it was a disappointing decision to remove the Genta inspired Ingenieur from the line-up.

The limited release tribute to the 1955 Ingenieur was a much more faithful and fond tribute to the 1955 model. The new Ingenieur neither reminds me of 1955 nor of something new and fresh (which both the 1955 model and the ‘70s Ingenieur were when they came out). Not only does the new Ingenieur not feel like an proper Ingenieur, it doesn’t appear to share any of the same DNA (it doesn’t even have the Ingenieur logo on the dial). 

Great designs aren’t always instant successes, and fashions come and go. But, IWC should have conviction in their original designs to have kept them, albeit with maybe a few subtle updates. Take the Milgauss as an example, the original wasn’t necessarily a huge success, but they took essentially the same design, put a green crystal on it and the market went crazy. If I were IWC, I’d take the 3227, insert a thinner in-house movement than the 80110 (reducing the height and weight), release a blue dial, white dial and black dial, with either the “I” pattern or graph paper dial and boom, an instant classic rebooted. Happy to put my deposit down now. 

Actually, if you look closer, some new ingenieurs still bear that ingenieur logo, while some don't.

If you look even closer... those with anti-magnetic feature (faraday cage) have the ingenieur logos.  The others don't (especially the ones with display back).

Greetings Hokeybear,

My vote goes with the Genta-inspired Ing. I really wanted to acquire one years ago, actually more than one, but after trying them on ( so, so many times ) it just turned out not to be a good size and weight fit for me. I was excited when the 40mm's were introduced, but it too wasn't to be.

However, still being a huge fan of the Ing and those Genta-inspired models produced by AP & PP. I thought it would be acceptable ( Tonny, please delete posting if necessary ) to show another example of a Genta-inspired model from yet another brand for the purpose of case and integral bracelet design only because , like you stated, those features are also what attracts me to the iconic Genta look. 

This 36mm Ref. 1530  by Rolex was created by ( I been told ) by a design team which included the consult of Genta. As you can see, the case and integral bracelet carries that wonderful Genta styling. It was developed to compete with the  AP. The 1530 had a automatic movement , first Rolex to use a Sapphire crystal and a solid link integral bracelet. The case, with a few design changes, went on to be chosen for use in the OysterQuartz Date and Datejust models. 

Anyway, thought it would be something of interest to those who follow Genta history. But bottom line for me....I much prefer  the older model  Ing's to the current Ing releases.

Andy

Obviously IWC is in the business of selling watches, not just catering to die hard collectors, so I understand they had to go with a design they thought had more mass appeal.  I do question, though, whether the new Ingenieur line will sell that well given that they removed everything that visually distinguishes it from the 10 other watches it competes with.  

I suspect the disappointing sales of the previous-generation Ingenieur had nothing to do with the Genta-design, but other problems with the Ingenieur line.  Most of the pieces were very big and heavy, and thus, had a more limited appeal.  IWC also bungled the marketing by trying to align the Ingenieur line with motorsports, which resulted in some pretty niche-focused models.

My local AD told me that the previous Genta-inspired 3239 Ingenieur (40mm, 10mm thickness), the simplest model in the previous Ingenieur lineup, actually was a very good seller for them.  That model is now starting to increase in value on the secondary market, as is the 3227.  The fact that GP, Zenith, Maurice Lacroix, and others are now coming out with Genta-inspired watches that look a lot like the previous Ingenieur suggests there's a growing market for that asthetic.  The 39mm AP Royal Oak is now going for more than $5K over its MSRP because of high demand, and if you wanted to buy a new PP Nautilus today, the waiting list for that piece is now more than a year (and you'll pay a hefty premium over MSRP to even get on that list).  IWC, being one of the original Genta trio, gave the brand unique credibilty that the more recent entrants (even the VC Overseas) didn't have.  Maybe one day IWC will return to the Genta design.  One can only hope...

For me the new Ingénieur, three hands, is just a failure. No Ingénieur writing on the dial, no magnetic protection... + the design and the finishing are nothing special. And to finish a Sellita movement... What happent ? 

Luckily we can look in the past. Here is my 3725

Unfortunately IWC (having 6 watch families) does not offer now an integrated bracelet steel watch. Regarding functions my "love affair" is the Aquatimer Chronograph in steel ref. 371928 - that I'm more than happy to own. This set of functions (12H chronograph, day-date, 60 min. turning count-up bezel, 120 m WR to keep case height down) in a 42 mm (so not oversized) case is almost perfect. Returning all these in a 42 mm Genta Inge case and driven by the day-date cal. 69xxx and having a fine adjust clasp would be an instant but long-burning hit.
Just my two cents of course. So far IWC is the brand that made the least use of the Genta design. But it can make a wonderful comeback if wished. I'm strongly for it.
Best,
Robert